UK politics: Veni Vidi Vaccinati

[BigFatCoward]

35 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

 

But seriously -- has anyone actually put their names to these accusations of her bullying? Or has it all been "palace sources" and anonymous gossip?

 

I feel we have been over the rest of the points in your post enough and neither of us is going to change the others mind clearly. 

However to the above, from an HR point of view you really shouldn't be naming people who make allegations against someone so much more powerful than them. Especially since in this case the individuals in question would have the worlds press all over them for weeks. Already stressed people shouldnt be subjected to that, on that we should agree?  

Harry and Megham havent named the racist or the person who allegedly told her to suck it up, why should the palace name the victims?

[DanteGabriel]

@Fragile Bird, you should probably edit the slur out of the end of your post. Mods have said that word is not acceptable here, even ironically (and I know because I tried to use it the same way a few years ago).

[SeanF]

37 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I feel we have been over the rest of the points in your post enough and neither of us is going to change the others mind clearly. 

However to the above, from an HR point of view you really shouldn't be naming people who make allegations against someone so much more powerful than them. Especially since in this case the individuals in question would have the worlds press all over them for weeks. Already stressed people shouldnt be subjected to that, on that we should agree?  

Harry and Megham havent named the racist or the person who allegedly told her to suck it up, why should the palace name the victims?

If we're discussing punching up or punching down, it's the palace staff who are on the receiving end of those who punch down,.

[Maltaran]

I don’t think many people in the U.K. know about Commonwealth Day - I certainly didn’t until I read your post. As for Philip being in hospital, I’m pretty sure the interview was organised and scheduled before he went in.

[Fragile Bird]

48 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

@Fragile Bird, you should probably edit the slur out of the end of your post. Mods have said that word is not acceptable here, even ironically (and I know because I tried to use it the same way a few years ago).

I actually thought it was telling a board member to eff off, which I received a suspension for, the f-bomb is dropped all over this place. Not in thread titles, though, because Google picks up thread titles. But, whatever.

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

I don’t think many people in the U.K. know about Commonwealth Day - I certainly didn’t until I read your post. As for Philip being in hospital, I’m pretty sure the interview was organised and scheduled before he went in.

I wonder if Oprah would have moved the date if Phillip died, or if the network would have refused, more ratings that way. I know that the interview was scheduled before he went to hospital, it still seemed to be in poor taste, but who cares about a 99-year old, right?

We peasants in the Commonwealth are probably more clued in because Her Majesty’s loyal peasant press pointed it out.

[Derfel Cadarn]

3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I actually thought it was telling a board member to eff off, which I received a suspension for, the f-bomb is dropped all over this place. Not in thread titles, though, because Google picks up thread titles. But, whatever.

They’re not referring to the fucks but to the derogatory ‘d’ word used earlier in your post.

[Fragile Bird]

19 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

They’re not referring to the fucks but to the derogatory ‘d’ word used earlier in your post.

 It was meant very sarcastically, of course, and I have changed it now. My profound apologies. I actually had in mind the way the UK treated it’s colonies and how superior the US attitude has been about it. When did the last “colony” become independent? Most went in the 60s and the 70s. Does the UK interfere with elections in former colonies? I’m thinking of the way the Republican Party has so strenuously worked to suppress the votes of black people and other minorities in their country. The fact that Trump tried vigorously to throw out the results from urban centers, where minorities voted for Biden. Of course, elections in former colonies don’t impact the UK the way elections in the US impact the US, so the comparison isn’t exact.

I also had at the back of my mind a story I heard last night that I haven’t had a chance to confirm or deny. There’s this big pizza chain in the US called Papa John’s, and a host on a radio show said the founder, some millionaire or billionaire, has trainers working with him night and day to expunge the “n” word from his vocabulary because he can’t have a conversation of any length without using it, and is having a great deal of trouble expunging it from his vocabulary. As the host said, a word maybe some of us used as children because we heard an adult say it but we knew was wrong as soon as it came out of our mouths. Mix that in with commentators I saw on CNN saying “it took a real Queen, Queen Oprah, to show up the royal family”.

 

[Cas Stark]

On 3/10/2021 at 3:11 AM, DMC said:

I don't know why it's not credible she was told not to seek help.  I don't care how many connections Harry has, the firm/institution/whatever the fuck you wanna call it pressuring her not to do so due to PR concerns is entirely plausible - even ignoring their past behavior.

Why is the daughter in law of the future king whose husband is worth about $30M, who has her own money,  and who has multiple friends with their own private planes going to 'HR' to 'ask' get in patient treatment?  All they have to do is get in the car and go somewhere.  Harry can pay for it.  Meghan herself can pay for it.  So, the idea that she would go to some HR admin and then be told 'no' does not ring true.  It also doesn't seem consistent with the family  history, Princess Diana was in therapy back in the 1980s, Harry has been in therapy, I believe William also....so the idea that the family had some aversion to members seeking mental health counseling, again, does not seem quite accurate. 

[DanteGabriel]

@Fragile Bird I guess the Commonwealth Day aspect was one I didn't take into account enough as a deliberately timed provocation, so thank you for sharing that with me. I also understand how y'all would take extra offense at this happening while Prince Philip is in the hospital. I pretty much regard him as an out-of-touch racist classist dinosaur, so my reaction is not as emotionally fraught as a Commonwealth citizen's might be.

It's also comforting to know that you, too, have been suspended in the past.

The bit about Papa John, though, I'm just not sure how to engage with, besides acknowledging that he is also the shit of the earth, so I'll let it lie.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

However to the above, from an HR point of view you really shouldn't be naming people who make allegations against someone so much more powerful than them. Especially since in this case the individuals in question would have the worlds press all over them for weeks. Already stressed people shouldnt be subjected to that, on that we should agree?  

Harry and Megham havent named the racist or the person who allegedly told her to suck it up, why should the palace name the victims?

It's a fair point about HR considerations. But the palace PR apparatus is so fucked up in my eyes that I will assume they're lying or exaggerating to suit their needs. They have blown their credibility protecting a child rapist and their pattern of previous smears on inconvenient wives cannot be ignored. It's too bad, I think workers should have protection, but the well has been poisoned by the utter untrustworthiness of the institution.

If an individual came forward to say "Meghan Markle bullied me" I might rethink my stance. People have come forward to accuse more powerful people of worse things. At least a palace staffer with dirt on Markle would have the most rapacious tabloids on their side rather than trying to destroy them.

[Zorral]

Bird likely is giving way too much credit to the US media's knowledge of anything ceremonial, ritualistic, etc. that applies to the UK and the Commonwealth, and the dates on which they are observed.

The other thing to keep in mind at all times, is They, in which ever country, always accuse 'us', whoever we may be, or what country we are in, of what THEY do.  They get hired to do this very thing, such as accusations of bullying etc., as has been pointed out in this particular case multiple times.  THEY do it here too, see Tucker Carlson's non-stop accusations of exactly the same sort, up on the same sort of people in the public eye, particularly women, while constantly whining he's the victim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/11/tucker-carlson-taylor-lorenz-fox/

 

[Fragile Bird]

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Oprah’s researchers knew that was Commonwealth Day, a day on which the Queen would make a public speech, and chose the date to upstage her. Also, as I said, it was the day Harry made his final appearance as a working member of the Royal family.

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I feel we have been over the rest of the points in your post enough and neither of us is going to change the others mind clearly. 

However to the above, from an HR point of view you really shouldn't be naming people who make allegations against someone so much more powerful than them. Especially since in this case the individuals in question would have the worlds press all over them for weeks. Already stressed people shouldnt be subjected to that, on that we should agree?  

Harry and Megham havent named the racist or the person who allegedly told her to suck it up, why should the palace name the victims?

And I'm going to view ....sceptically, claims of racism by someone who is photographed dressed as a Nazi, and gives an interview about "my little P*ki friend."

[Cas Stark]

Even if CBS and Oprah didn't know or pay attention to the Commonwealth Day timing, Harry cannot have forgotten this, he's been attending the ceremony for years. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Even if CBS and Oprah didn't know or pay attention to the Commonwealth Day timing, Harry cannot have forgotten this, he's been attending the ceremony for years. 

It wasn’t filmed on Commonwealth Day, and I doubt he had any say when it was broadcast.

[Cas Stark]

Just now, SeanF said:

And I'm going to view ....sceptically, claims of racism by someone who is photographed dressed as a Nazi, and gives an interview about "my little P*ki friend."

I think it is quite possible, probable even, that Harry did have an epiphany on race after he started dating Meghan, and that he became more sensitized to such issues/perceptions.  However, if I grant his ability to learn from his past errors and grow and change, it is sad that he apparently didn't give his family member the same opportunity.  Harry and Meghan not only didn't say exactly what was said, they didn't say if Harry ever explained to this person, who I surmise is Charles, how such a comment was hurtful/racist.  We have no idea if this person even knew they had given offense until viewing the interview. 

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I think it is quite possible, probable even, that Harry did have an epiphany on race after he started dating Meghan, and that he became more sensitized to such issues/perceptions.  However, if I grant his ability to learn from his past errors and grow and change, it is sad that he apparently didn't give his family member the same opportunity. 

Well, perhaps he would have if his father (lol) hadn't stopped taking his calls.

 

[SeanF]

15 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Well, perhaps he would have if his father (lol) hadn't stopped taking his calls.

 

Major Hewitt?

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Major Hewitt?

I mean, it's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes that Harry is no Windsor. Charles probably be like, 'To hell with this little ginger bastard.'