Relic Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 5:23 PM, Tywin et al. said: Would you prefer a second Trump term? Biden's been President for two and a half weeks and he's signing EO's at a record pace Honestly, what the last 5 years has shown me is that we should probably reduce the power of the Presidential office, and make cabinet positions something that the public votes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, Relic said: Honestly, what the last 5 years has shown me is that we should probably reduce the power of the Presidential office, and make cabinet positions something that the public votes on. I've said for a long time that the President's powers should be greatly reduced, but I strongly disagree about your take on electing cabinet members. One of the most important things a president does is surround themselves with talent, ideally great talent that isn't self-serving. That can define a presidency and that person should have the choice of those who serve around them. If you were a head coach, per se, would you want other people picking your assistants? I wouldn't, and so far I think Biden has done a great job of establishing a team around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, Relic said: Honestly, what the last 5 years has shown me is that we should probably reduce the power of the Presidential office, and make cabinet positions something that the public votes on. Public elections for cabinet positions would be a complete and utter disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 19 minutes ago, Relic said: Honestly, what the last 5 years has shown me is that we should probably reduce the power of the Presidential office, and make cabinet positions something that the public votes on. Some states do this to some extent, but in almost all cases I'm not sure it really constrains the power of the governors that much. Especially since as partisanship has grown, in more and more cases those other officials are elected from the same party as the governor. The best path forward would be for Congress to reclaim the powers it used to have; except they willingly gave them up to the Presidency, and have mostly shown no inclination to want them back. Especially not the powers related to foreign affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Congress abdicated its constitutional role as the dominant branch a long time ago. Partly due to political expediency, yeah, but also because of the necessities and burdens of a modern national government. I mean, in fantasy world it'd of course be nice if we could change the constitutional powers of the presidency. Included would be considerable more brightline checks on its powers, yes, but much more enumerated powers as well. Basically, the player's guide for the most powerful office in the world should be a hell of a lot more than 1000-odd words that reads like an undergrad finishing an essay in between keg stands and bong rips. As for electing Cabinet/agency officials, nah. In terms of selections I suspect effectively it wouldn't actually be much different - just like elected vs. appointed judges aren't. The big problem would be removal from office. I definitely don't want impeachment or recall or whatnot to be the only mechanisms to sack a top bureaucratic official. If we did that we'd be doomed, doomed I say!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Apparently, Newsmax apologized for his anchor walking out on PillowDude. Can't have viewers be upset! I hope they get sued into oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, DMC said: If we did that we'd be doomed, doomed I say!!! At least somebody is thinking about the children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Ran said: Public elections for cabinet positions would be a complete and utter disaster. I freely admit that I'm far from an expert in these matters. You're probably right. Certain cabinet positions should definitely be in line with the president, but it seems to me others should be more...stable. Health and Human Services for one. I think Covid has proven that. Veteran Affairs, Education, Labor, Transportation, Agriculture...all of these would benefit from not having frequent turn over. Would you agree that at least SOME of the cabinet positions should be composed of elected officials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Relic said: I freely admit that I'm far from an expert in these matters. You're probably right. Certain cabinet positions should definitely be in line with the president, but it seems to me others should be more...stable. Health and Human Services for one. I think Covid has proven that. Veteran Affairs, Education, Labor, Transportation, Agriculture...all of these would benefit from not having frequent turn over. Would you agree that at least SOME of the cabinet positions should be composed of elected officials? Labor??? I do not think Republicans even truly appoint labor secretaries, they are just a second commerce secretary who doesn’t protect labor at all. So no, I do not think allowing that to continue for long periods of time serves people at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, Relic said: I freely admit that I'm far from an expert in these matters. You're probably right. Certain cabinet positions should definitely be in line with the president, but it seems to me others should be more...stable. Health and Human Services for one. I think Covid has proven that. Veteran Affairs, Education, Labor, Transportation, Agriculture...all of these would benefit from not having frequent turn over. Would you agree that at least SOME of the cabinet positions should be composed of elected officials? I strongly disagree here. These cabinet positions are in charge of shit that should not be determined in a electoral way in large part because the electorate is full of morons who decide which candidate they are going to vote for based on who seems like someone they could have a beer with. You'd go from a situation where those who are appointed theoretically have some sort of relevant experience or knowledge that makes them well equipped to run these massive bureaucracies in a functional competent way. It's already bad enough that we elect presidents and congress people based more on style than substance, using the same system to determine the people who oversee the various cabinet agencies would be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: I strongly disagree here. These cabinet positions are in charge of shit that should not be determined in a electoral way in large part because the electorate is full of morons who decide which candidate they are going to vote for based on who seems like someone they could have a beer with. So Democracy is broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Relic said: So Democracy is broken? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 If you're looking for agency heads to be stable careerists with expertise, the last thing you wanna do is have them be chosen by election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, DMC said: If you're looking for agency heads to be stable careerists with expertise, the last thing you wanna do is have them be chosen by election. mine line of work, contracts are generally not awarded by lowest bidder (if so I would not have gotten mine) but by personal stability and skill at the job. then we train somebody up from scratch, and they bid on contracts. This is street level stuff, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, DMC said: If you're looking for agency heads to be stable careerists with expertise, the last thing you wanna do is have them be chosen by election. Name me one example, when the American public has voted an outsider with not qualifications or expertise into office. Well, other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Name me one example, when the American public has voted an outsider with not qualifications or expertise into office. Well, other than that. Besides the former president? Lots, I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mindwalker said: Besides the former president? Lots, I assume. Roughly 50% of the Republican caucus. The other 50% wants to use their expertise to destroy everything they touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Relic said: So Democracy is broken? I think a democracy is only as good as its voters, and, well... *gestures all around* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Do we know if the Dems will call witesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, DMC said: If you're looking for agency heads to be stable careerists with expertise, the last thing you wanna do is have them be chosen by election. Come on, it'd be great. We could get some more football coaches in there to run the entire country's health policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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