Sansa vs. Tyrion

[Alyn Oakenfist]

17 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Sansa is a 12 year old child bride

She's not written as a 12 year old, therefore we shouldn't treat her as such.

18 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

not an automaton. She's not standing there thinking, "you know what? I'm gonna humiliate my dwarf husband by not kneeling, because the Lannisters are mean and I hate them." She's a terrified, humiliated adolescent who is openly crying at her forciably arranged marriage into a family that has held her against her will, abused her, threatened to kill her, murdered her father and forced her to watch. At the beginning of this chapter, Tyrion told Sansa that he would step aside and let her marry Lancel instead if she wanted to, since he might be more pleasing to look upon. You know what Sansa's reaction was? ""I don't want any Lannisters," she thought." Sansa isn't trying to "get" anything out of this situation. She's trying to survive yet another indignity forced on her by the Lannisters. No wonder she doesn't really want to consider the hurt feelings of the man she's being forced to marry. Because while Tyrion is also an abuse victim himself, he is in no way in as bad a situation as Sansa.

I would agree with you, had Sansa thought out ACOK and ASOS not show remarkable skill at reading a situation and playing the meek submissive simpleton.

[Wouter]

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Question: how well did Tywin think that a dwarf, albeit his son, would come over as a suitable husband to the Starks as far as the Northern lords were concerned? They’re rather ableist, since two of Rickard Karstark’s sons say Bran should commit suicide because he’s paralyzed. Paralysis isn’t typically passed down, but dwarfism typically is.

I doubt the Westerosi know anything about genetics, other than some maesters perhaps, and ASOIAF seems to have fantasy genetics anyway.

Tywin's main intention was to get Tyrion out of his hair - getting him to give up on Casterly Rock (by dangling the prospect of Winterfell before Tyrion's nose) was probably the real reason. It's a win-win for Tywin: he stops a Stark-Tyrell alliance by prohibiting the Sansa-Willas marriage, he solves the problem of Tyrion wanting to be his heir in actual fact (and if Tyrion would get killed in a hostile north, then so much the better as Tywin's hands would be clean) and if Tyrion actually manages to get Winterfell under control, he now has a Lannister ally in the north.

Whether Tywin was planning on Tyrion or Roose Bolton to come out on top in the north is unknown. He was more than capable of throwing either under the proverbial bus, as long as Stannis didn't succeed in gaining the north.

If he did hope Tyrion would actually succeed, he may have been counting on Lannister' riches (or at least the control of Westerosi resources by Lannisters) to buy the allegiance of northmen (in the form of food to survive winter, for example) or that so many northmen would die (in winter and in armed conflict) that resistance would be minimal.

[Nathan Stark]

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

She's not written as a 12 year old, therefore we shouldn't treat her as such.

She's 12, therefor we should treat her as such.

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I would agree with you, had Sansa thought out ACOK and ASOS not show remarkable skill at reading a situation and playing the meek submissive simpleton.

Again, she's 12. You're expecting adult levels of maturity and awareness out of a terrified child. It's not like we aren't in her head during this marriage. It's her pov.

[Elegant Woes]

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

She's not written as a 12 year old, therefore we shouldn't treat her as such.

I would agree with you, had Sansa thought out ACOK and ASOS not show remarkable skill at reading a situation and playing the meek submissive simpleton.

Yes she is capable of playing the meek submissive simpleton. That doesn't mean she's genuinely like that. While Sansa is overall a kind, polite, and gentle girl who is not quick to get angry, she still has a temper, and that temper resurfaces a couple of times throughout the series (i.e when Arya throws a blood orange in her face and ruins her betrothal gift, when Joffrey taunts her about how he will kill Robb, when little Robert destroys her snow replica of Winterfell). Sansa not kneeling is just another example of that she has a threshold. Sansa not kneeling is not a sign she's mean. It just mean she's human. By denying her of this you are saying you have an issue with Sansa being a multifaceted character. 

[Mystical]

23 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I would agree with you, had Sansa thought out ACOK and ASOS not show remarkable skill at reading a situation and playing the meek submissive simpleton.

Are you aware that abuse victims do this all damn day in order to survive or just avoid being abused? They learn to read their abusers moods and triggers. Sansa does this too when she judges Joffrey's mood and adjusts her behavior accordingly. She is even careful sometimes as to how she dresses. This is classic behavior for abuse victims. It doesn't mean you are somehow smart, it just means you are trying to survive with the most minimal damage done to you.

23 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

She's not written as a 12 year old, therefore we shouldn't treat her as such.

She is 11-12 years old when this all goes down, therefore she is 11-12.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

16 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Are you aware that abuse victims do this all damn day in order to survive or just avoid being abused? They learn to read their abusers moods and triggers. Sansa does this too when she judges Joffrey's mood and adjusts her behavior accordingly. She is even careful sometimes as to how she dresses. This is classic behavior for abuse victims. It doesn't mean you are somehow smart, it just means you are trying to survive with the most minimal damage done to you.

Fair enough. Still doesn't change my point that the cloak incident seems out of place for her.

[BlackLightning]

On 2/2/2021 at 6:58 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Why did Tyrion choose to accept the match?

Because he wanted Casterly Rock, its incomes and the prestige that came with it. He couldn't have it and Winterfell was the next best thing.

So basically desire and selfish ambition.

Plus, there's a whole tragic "woobie" angle to it. Sansa is the best match Tyrion has ever had in his entire life. Better than even Elia Martell, who Tywin tried to secure when Tyrion was a newborn. And given Tyrion's age, it's probably his last chance.

However, I do feel the need to point out that Tyrion is a very, very bad match for Sansa. Very bad. On so many levels. Even someone as twisted and disgusting as Cersei found it to be obscene. That's literally what she says; she calls it "obscene" out loud on multiple occasions and opines (rather sympathetically) that she would've found Sansa a much better match.

Cersei feels bad about what happened to Lord Eddard (I think she liked him) and later opines that if it were up to her, she would've found Sansa a much better match. As a matter of fact, had she been the one calling the shots, Sansa would've been marrying Joffrey.

And as bad as Joffrey is, HE'S still a better match than Tyrion!!!

Even though the politics of it is undeniable, the real motivation for Tywin doing it was to 1) humiliate House Stark and the Northmen, 2) it was the final stroke in his quest to avenge Tyrion's "kidnapping" by Catelyn Stark (even though he never really cared much about Tyrion personally) and 3) rob House Stark and the Northmen of their honor and dignity and power.

Honestly, the marriage between the two of them is act of war and a rather cruel one at that. When you look at it alongside the Red Wedding, it's a form of ethnic cleansing. Very similar to the whole Bosnian War back in the 90s where all the men and boys were being slaughtered and all the women and girls were being raped and forcibly impregnated.

Tyrion knew it but went along with it anyway. That's about when I started really hating Tyrion.

On 2/4/2021 at 7:52 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I get all the people feeling sorry for Sansa, and I feel too, but man this whole thing is so nasty to Tyrion.

Tyrion, above all else desires to be loved and accepted. And in Sansa he basically gets a massive divine fuck you saying "hey cunt, look at all the things you'll never have". He gets a kind, innocent woman, to whom he is perfectly courteous and he does and tries his best, and it's still not nearly enough. It's basically Tyrion being told that he will never be enough. And that's really a bummer.

See that's another reason why I don't like Tyrion.

He is so entitled.

Oh, so what if Sansa gives Tyrion the politest "fuck you" ever seen in Planetos and our world. And? So what? She was polite. It's more than what he and his family deserves.

I don't know why people forget that Tyrion Lannister is literally an enemy of hers and her family. If the Starks and the Targaryens are the main characters (they are), then Tyrion is a villain.

Let's keep it real: a month or so before their wedding, what was Tyrion doing? Actively waging war against her family when he KNOWS his family was in the wrong to begin with. He was scheming to free his very guilty brother who was a hostage of Sansa's family while keeping Sansa hostage when he literally could've traded Sansa for Jaime and called it a day.

Sansa is not the sharpest knife in the drawer but she's not stupid. She knows that Tyrion wants to claim Winterfell for himself, his children and for House Lannister as a whole. She knows Tyrion is only being nice to her because he wants what she has. She knows that it's an act of war.

Tyrion, however, is so entitled that he thinks that she should forget and ignore everything because he is being nice to her now. All the while, he's cheating on her with Shae who very clearly communicates that she is just on his payroll and doesn't really care.

On 2/7/2021 at 3:20 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Fair enough. Still doesn't change my point that the cloak incident seems out of place for her.

It wasn't out of place for her.

Sansa is growing up. She's getting tougher and stronger and developing her own sense of agency and identity.

Bending the knee is a sign of submission all throughout this world. Sansa is clearly trying to communicate that she is not a willful participant in any of this. Why should she bend the knee? Bending the knee would mean that she is submitting to Lannister rule.

By the time, Tyrion returns to Westeros, Sansa is going to be even tougher and more active.

I actually anticipate a real showdown between the two in the final book. Tyrion (who is becoming more aggressive and villanous) is starting to obsess over getting his wife back and will likely be livid that Sansa would go so far as to remarry while he is still alive. He's already bitter that she escaped the city and the trials without him.

Sansa is not going to want him back: how can she when she never wanted him to begin with? She is going to defend herself the second time around and she'll be in a better position to do so. Tyrion is going to be more violent the second time around which gives Sansa even more reason to keep her distance.

[Angel Eyes]

9 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Because he wanted Casterly Rock, its incomes and the prestige that came with it. He couldn't have it and Winterfell was the next best thing.

So basically desire and selfish ambition.

Plus, there's a whole tragic "woobie" angle to it. Sansa is the best match Tyrion has ever had in his entire life. Better than even Elia Martell, who Tywin tried to secure when Tyrion was a newborn. And given Tyrion's age, it's probably his last chance.

However, I do feel the need to point out that Tyrion is a very, very bad match for Sansa. Very bad. On so many levels. Even someone as twisted and disgusting as Cersei found it to be obscene. That's literally what she says; she calls it "obscene" out loud on multiple occasions and opines (rather sympathetically) that she would've found Sansa a much better match.

Cersei feels bad about what happened to Lord Eddard (I think she liked him) and later opines that if it were up to her, she would've found Sansa a much better match. As a matter of fact, had she been the one calling the shots, Sansa would've been marrying Joffrey.

And as bad as Joffrey is, HE'S still a better match than Tyrion!!!

Even though the politics of it is undeniable, the real motivation for Tywin doing it was to 1) humiliate House Stark and the Northmen, 2) it was the final stroke in his quest to avenge Tyrion's "kidnapping" by Catelyn Stark (even though he never really cared much about Tyrion personally) and 3) rob House Stark and the Northmen of their honor and dignity and power.

Honestly, the marriage between the two of them is act of war and a rather cruel one at that. When you look at it alongside the Red Wedding, it's a form of ethnic cleansing. Very similar to the whole Bosnian War back in the 90s where all the men and boys were being slaughtered and all the women and girls were being raped and forcibly impregnated.

Tyrion knew it but went along with it anyway. That's about when I started really hating Tyrion.

See that's another reason why I don't like Tyrion.

He is so entitled.

Oh, so what if Sansa gives Tyrion the politest "fuck you" ever seen in Planetos and our world. And? So what? She was polite. It's more than what he and his family deserves.

I don't know why people forget that Tyrion Lannister is literally an enemy of hers and her family. If the Starks and the Targaryens are the main characters (they are), then Tyrion is a villain.

Let's keep it real: a month or so before their wedding, what was Tyrion doing? Actively waging war against her family when he KNOWS his family was in the wrong to begin with. He was scheming to free his very guilty brother who was a hostage of Sansa's family while keeping Sansa hostage when he literally could've traded Sansa for Jaime and called it a day.

Sansa is not the sharpest knife in the drawer but she's not stupid. She knows that Tyrion wants to claim Winterfell for himself, his children and for House Lannister as a whole. She knows Tyrion is only being nice to her because he wants what she has. She knows that it's an act of war.

Tyrion, however, is so entitled that he thinks that she should forget and ignore everything because he is being nice to her now. All the while, he's cheating on her with Shae who very clearly communicates that she is just on his payroll and doesn't really care.

It wasn't out of place for her.

Sansa is growing up. She's getting tougher and stronger.

Bending the knee is a sign of submission all throughout this world. Sansa is clearly trying to communicate that she is not a willful participant in any of this. Why should she bend the knee? Bending the knee would mean that she is submitting to Lannister rule.

How exactly Tywin was going to get Tyrion across as a suitable husband for Sansa to the Northerners is a bit of a puzzle outside of strongarming, since

1. Sansa is cut out of Robb’s will after that point
2. The North isn’t likely to accept a lord with Tyrion’s inheritable physical challenges.

In the case of scheming to free Jaime and trading for Sansa and calling it a day, Robb was unwilling to trade Jaime for Sansa. So that’s on him as well. He essentially left her to be lion fodder and wouldn’t have cared if one of the Kingsguard hit her wrong one day and she suffered bleeding on the brain and died.

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

How exactly Tywin was going to get Tyrion across as a suitable husband for Sansa to the Northerners is a bit of a puzzle outside of strong-arming, since

I don't know.

It's such an obvious setup for failure but Tyrion is blinded by his desperation for love and power.

I think Tywin just wanted to humiliate the Starks and the Northmen both and erase the Stark name from history as ignominiously and completely as possible. Having his Lannister son be the consort Lord of Winterfell and his Lannister grandson and great-grandsons be the ruling Lord of Winterfell is just a cherry on top.

Who knows. Maybe Tywin wanted Cersei and/or Tommen to be his heirs all along and this was an elaborate ploy to permanently rid himself of Tyrion without Tyrion being none the wiser. Murder was the case and the weapon of choice being angry, dishonored northmen or Sansa herself.

If that was the case, then...wow. Just wow. But it does explain why he made Roose Bolton and not Tyrion Warden of the North

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

• Sansa is cut out of Robb’s will after that point

Well to Tywin's credit, he doesn't know that.

Or if he does, he doesn't let Tyrion know which means that he doesn't really care. But again to Tywin's credit, why should he care about Robb's will? It's invalid in his eyes because Robb is a rebel and a traitor.

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

In the case of scheming to free Jaime and trading for Sansa and calling it a day, Robb was unwilling to trade Jaime for Sansa. So that’s on him as well. He essentially left her to be lion fodder and wouldn’t have cared if one of the Kingsguard hit her wrong one day and she suffered bleeding on the brain and died.

True.

That is on Robb.

But still the point is that Tyrion is in a very high position of power and did nothing to help or comfort Sansa. Knowing full well that the Lannisters were on the wrong side of things to begin with. He only starts caring for her when she becomes one of the most eligible bachelorettes in the Seven Kingdoms.

And yes, I am calling Tyrion a gold-digger.

[Nathan Stark]

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

He is so entitled.

Took the words out of my mouth. I agree with your whole post, but that sentence sums it all up. Tyrion wants to be loved, and resents that he isn't because of his dwarfism. The reality is that his condition is not the problem, his behavior is. He's bitter towards Sansa for not loving him enough, but he hasn't done anything to earn her love. Sansa doesn't owe him or his family squat.

[BlackLightning]

22 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Took the words out of my mouth. I agree with your whole post, but that sentence sums it all up. Tyrion wants to be loved, and resents that he isn't because of his dwarfism. The reality is that his condition is not the problem, his behavior is. He's bitter towards Sansa for not loving him enough, but he hasn't done anything to earn her love. Sansa doesn't owe him or his family squat.

I sometimes wonder that if Tyrion had a personality transplant and was more pure like Bran, Robb, Jon or Ned or at least more like Daven Lannister (respectably stays in his place), Gemma Lannister (cleverly and quietly adapts to unfortunate situations and makes them work really well) or Lancel Lannister (pliable), maybe more people would want to love him despite his appearance.

They would not hate him as much that's for sure.

Cersei is twisted but even she has a good reason or two to hate and fear Tyrion. Tywin is even more twisted but, frankly, I can't blame him. He remembers how his father nearly fumbled House Lannister into oblivion and the Westerlands into anarchy all too well. He also watch Robert Baratheon drink and eat and whore the Seven Kingdoms into millions of dragons of debt and then a horror show of a civil war. Tyrion has very good qualities but with his rebelliousness, ambition and lecherousness, he makes both his grandfather and Robert Baratheon look tame.

Highborn men do get some passes in terms of sexuality but not if they take it too far. If they do, the passes end and they are looked down upon, dismissed, derided or openly reviled.

Edmure Tully and Theon Greyjoy had obviously been sowing their wild oats with Theon doing so more famously, Brandon Stark and Harrold Hardyng are playboys who target/prefer virgins, the Blackfish is likely gay (but closeted), Renly is clearly gay but sensible enough to exercise some discretion, Littlefinger can openly boast and jape about his sexual exploits, and Tywin is a hypocrite who secretly has whores he relieves himself on. And still, they are all a far cry from Aegon the Unlikely, Maegor the Cruel, Robert Baratheon, Euron Greyjoy and Tyrion Lannister. No one really cared about what Laenor Velaryon, the husband of Rhaenyra Targaryen, did and didn't do up until it became clear that men and boys were not safe around him. It's probably why he was murdered: he tried the wrong one.

The difference between the first group of men who are openly sexually active and the men who are too sexually active is discretion, a degree of caution (they don't expose themselves to sexual dangers nor do they stick their d__ into any and everything that moves) and, of course, a lower degree of entitlement and a healthier self-esteem.

[Angel Eyes]

5 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I sometimes wonder that if Tyrion had a personality transplant and was more pure like Bran, Robb, Jon or Ned or at least more like Daven Lannister (respectably stays in his place), Gemma Lannister (cleverly and quietly adapts to unfortunate situations and makes them work really well) or Lancel Lannister (pliable), maybe more people would want to love him despite his appearance.

They would not hate him as much that's for sure.

 

You can thank being a Lannister for that, the snarkiness (just to give an example) is something that's practically genetic. Tytos is a carrier, but at least three of his children (the ones that are alive) and at least three grandchildren are able to lay down biting sarcasm at a moment's notice. The only one who can't is Lancel.

Of course being more pliable wouldn't make him any likable. Look at Samwell Tarly; being pliable and with a father like Randyll, whose personality is just as hard as Tywin's, would make him more likely to want to ship him off to the Wall.

[Angel Eyes]

1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

Took the words out of my mouth. I agree with your whole post, but that sentence sums it all up. Tyrion wants to be loved, and resents that he isn't because of his dwarfism. The reality is that his condition is not the problem, his behavior is. He's bitter towards Sansa for not loving him enough, but he hasn't done anything to earn her love. Sansa doesn't owe him or his family squat.

Really, it isn't just Tyrion who has a problem with love when it comes to the Lannisters. Cersei wanted to marry Rhaegar, but married Robert instead; their marriage hit the rocks early, and she starts having sex with Jaime. For Jaime, the only woman he's ever loved is Cersei. Tywin presumably married for love, but doesn't allow his children the same liberty.

Why did Jaime choose to lie about Tysha? What could Tywin do to him, take his nuts and rod?

[BlackLightning]

5 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

You can thank being a Lannister for that, the snarkiness (just to give an example) is something that's practically genetic.

Probably. The snarky, smart-assness of all the Lannisters seems to stretch all the way back to Lann the Clever.

But still. Daven, Stafford, Tyrek, Gemma, Kevan, Gerion and their children are all pretty decent people who know how to mind their manners and watch their tongue. Even Cersei knew and knows how to toe the line to a certain extent.

Tyrion seems to get off on being provocative and ill-mannered.

9 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Of course being more pliable wouldn't make him any likable. Look at Samwell Tarly; being pliable and with a father like Randyll, whose personality is just as hard as Tywin's, would make him more likely to want to ship him off to the Wall.

When I say pliable, I mean someone who is teachable, flexible, submissive, unobstrusive/pleasant and is good at following directions and taking orders. It's another word for someone who is easy to manage and work around. Someone not difficult.

Samwell Tarly - as much as I enjoy him - is a spineless coward and a simp. Those qualities make him difficult and not very pliable. Because Randyll Tarly is an abusive ass but you can't say that he didn't really try to make something out of Sam. If Tyrion would've been more like Samwell Tarly, then he would've still been hated. Probably not hated as much but hated nonetheless. Just for different reasons.

[BlackLightning]

1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

Took the words out of my mouth. I agree with your whole post, but that sentence sums it all up. Tyrion wants to be loved, and resents that he isn't because of his dwarfism. The reality is that his condition is not the problem, his behavior is. He's bitter towards Sansa for not loving him enough, but he hasn't done anything to earn her love. Sansa doesn't owe him or his family squat.

 I just caught something.

I think that is the whole point of Penny (and her brother).

They are dwarves too but they are treated differently than Tyrion and they also have a degree of humility and understanding that Tyrion lacks.

[Rose of Red Lake]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:33 PM, BlackLightning said:

 I just caught something.

I think that is the whole point of Penny (and her brother).

They are dwarves too but they are treated differently than Tyrion and they also have a degree of humility and understanding that Tyrion lacks.

I love Penny, best thing that ever happened to Tyrion's storyline. I want to boot him out replace him with her POV. Lmao.

[Springwatch]

On 2/7/2021 at 8:20 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Fair enough. Still doesn't change my point that the cloak incident seems out of place for her.

The cloak? Not so much. It's not aggressive, or even passive aggressive - we're inside her thoughts, and she just can't take any more. But generally, yes -  she has a streak of wolfy defiance which seems totally out of character. Have to assume Lady's influence lives on.

I don't understand why Sansa co-operated with the wedding at all. If she'd gone to the wedding kicking and screaming (as Cersei more or less dared her to do) - I'm certain Catelyn and Mordane would have been totally understanding of that. This was not what their courtesy training was meant for, but Sansa takes the idea to the stratosphere, crazy high. Like her giving the full courtesy treatment to the Hound, when most people (Kevan, Ned) think he's a beast dog who shouldn't be fed at table. Catelyn/Mordane would have a meltdown if they only knew.

On 2/6/2021 at 11:21 PM, Nathan Stark said:

She's 12, therefor we should treat her as such.

Again, she's 12. You're expecting adult levels of maturity and awareness out of a terrified child. It's not like we aren't in her head during this marriage. It's her pov.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 9:12 PM, Nathan Stark said:

Took the words out of my mouth. I agree with your whole post, but that sentence sums it all up. Tyrion wants to be loved, and resents that he isn't because of his dwarfism. The reality is that his condition is not the problem, his behavior is. He's bitter towards Sansa for not loving him enough, but he hasn't done anything to earn her love. Sansa doesn't owe him or his family squat.

Agree - but also, Sansa is far ahead of Tyrion in the emotional maturity stakes.

Tyrion is never going to forgive Sansa for not kneeling, but what he forgets is that right in the middle of all her pain and humiliation, she had a change of heart - she took pity on him and knelt for the kiss at the end of the ceremony. Ok, it doesn't carry the symbolic weight of exchange of cloaks, but it does publicy undo the picture of rejection she gave before. And in fact, from that point, she's a model wife in public; she backs him up without fail.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

28 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

I don't understand why Sansa co-operated with the wedding at all. If she'd gone to the wedding kicking and screaming (as Cersei more or less dared her to do) - I'm certain Catelyn and Mordane would have been totally understanding of that. This was not what their courtesy training was meant for, but Sansa takes the idea to the stratosphere, crazy high. Like her giving the full courtesy treatment to the Hound, when most people (Kevan, Ned) think he's a beast dog who shouldn't be fed at table. Catelyn/Mordane would have a meltdown if they only knew.

I always thought that her idea was (truthfully too) "Well I'm stuck here and all this is going to happen no matter what I do, at least make myself look meek and submissive so that they'll underestimate until I have a chance to strike back."

[Lady_Qohor]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I always thought that her idea was (truthfully too) "Well I'm stuck here and all this is going to happen no matter what I do, at least make myself look meek and submissive so that they'll underestimate until I have a chance to strike back."

Don't forget that she has also been raised in a medieval society and on romantic stories that likely both praise women and children for being polite, quiet, agreeable and obedient. Add that upbringing to the fact that Sansa is a natural people pleaser and all of the men around her carry swords (one of which was used to kill her father).

So you've got fear, societal conditioning and natural disposition all pressing down on her to behave her in a certain way, its almost surprising that she managed to even defy Tyrion in that brief moment.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

2 hours ago, Lady_Qohor said:

So you've got fear, societal conditioning and natural disposition all pressing down on her to behave her in a certain way, its almost surprising that she managed to even defy Tyrion in that brief moment.

Exactly. It's surprising to say the least, it doesn't make sense given how Sansa's mind works, nor does it make sense from a purely practical POV