Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Do you think GRRM did that on purpose, or do you think he managed to overlook the coincidence that TWO important Masters of Whispers in the history of House Targaryen have first names that are just one letter apart? I mean, that's a pretty big coincidence in-universe that this should happen, not to mention the fact that they both have physical disabilities, they both have unpredictable motivations, they're both friendless and distrusted, they both betray supposed allies and aid supposed enemies... the only difference I notice is that Larys came from a distinguished family while Varys didn't. And of course, we're all aware that Varys could very well be revealed as being descended from House Targaryen, House Tarbeck, or House Blackfyre. If GRRM did that by accident, then it really sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of his creativity hitting a brick wall. And if it's on purpose... is it another hint that Varys, like Larys, is also descended from prestige? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: And of course, we're all aware that Varys could very well be revealed as being descended from House Targaryen, House Tarbeck, or House Blackfyre. I don't think Varys is related to any of these Houses, but if we're going to throw Houses around, then he would fit better with House Strong. On top of Larys, the Lord of Whisperers, Lucamore the Lusty lost some boy parts. And then we have the whole episode of Larys spiriting away Aegon II and his two surviving children from the Red Keep when King's Landing fell to Rhaenyra. I should really reread this stuff. 20 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: If GRRM did that by accident, then it really sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of his creativity hitting a brick wall. And if it's on purpose... is it another hint that Varys, like Larys, is also descended from prestige? Pretty sure it's not accidental. No more than having Rego Draz of Pentos serve as Jaehaerys's master of coin is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 To be fair, it's not the only time that GRRM has recycled character traits and even appearances before. Lyonel Baratheon is basically just Robert without the orphan issues and dead love issues. Aegon III and Maekar both have a lot in common with Stannis. Aegon IV is a lot like Robert Baratheon, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Do you think GRRM did that on purpose, or do you think he managed to overlook the coincidence that TWO important Masters of Whispers in the history of House Targaryen have first names that are just one letter apart? I mean, that's a pretty big coincidence in-universe that this should happen, not to mention the fact that they both have physical disabilities, they both have unpredictable motivations, they're both friendless and distrusted, they both betray supposed allies and aid supposed enemies... the only difference I notice is that Larys came from a distinguished family while Varys didn't. And of course, we're all aware that Varys could very well be revealed as being descended from House Targaryen, House Tarbeck, or House Blackfyre. If GRRM did that by accident, then it really sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of his creativity hitting a brick wall. And if it's on purpose... is it another hint that Varys, like Larys, is also descended from prestige? On purpose. There is word play going on in the books, it's been predicted many times, but grrm's personal ideas seem too obscure to pin down. Anyway. Reportedly grrm has said that he needs to know the character's name so that he can write their story. Or the other way about. Which makes sense as part of the 'gardening' mindset. It's an incredibly significant remark if true. It is a fact that he goes on in the books about the importance of names. You've got to remember your name. But also what the names sounds like. Reek sounds like weak. Euron sounds like Urron. I would love this mystery to be solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Yes there are echoes of later Martins characters in his early novel Dying of the Light or vicesversa. Characters reminiscent of Rhaegar, Lyanna, Connigton, Varys and Larys both,Hound, Boltons, Aemond and Daemon meeting, and even prologue of AGOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 13 hours ago, James Steller said: To be fair, it's not the only time that GRRM has recycled character traits and even appearances before. Lyonel Baratheon is basically just Robert without the orphan issues and dead love issues. Aegon III and Maekar both have a lot in common with Stannis. Aegon IV is a lot like Robert Baratheon, etc. Yes, but it's never so blatant as with Larys and Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 I’m hoping that there’s some sort of reason for it, because otherwise it’s just lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egged Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Quote "He spirited Aegon, who was still recovering from the battle at Rook's Rest, and the king's two remaining children, Prince Maelor and Princess Jaehaera, from the Red Keep through a secret passage which led them out of the capital while bypassing the city's gates." Quote "Larys disguised King Aegon as a commoner and sent him to Dragonstone under the care of Ser Marston Waters, believing her own stronghold would be the last place Rhaenyra would think to search for her half brother." Quote "Larys remained in King's Landing, strategically working in secret to undermine Rhaenyra's hold on the capital." The following could totally be what happens with Cersei, with her leaving KL for Casterly Rock. Varys come out and support Margaery (Tommen dies and Margaery marries AGAIN?): Quote "The massive riot of King's Landing led to Rhaenyra abandoning the capital. When Ser Perkin the Flea and his followers gained control of the Red Keep and crowned Trystane Truefyre during the Moon of the Three Kings, Larys emerged and walked into the Red Keep, where he was greeted by Perkin and given a place of honor at the side of Trystane." He pretends to serve Trystane in favor of Aegon II, like Varys might pretend to support Margaery only to betray her for Aegon and his wife (Arianne?): Quote Larys feigned support to the pretender Trystane and secured the release of Alicent, Grand Maester Orwyle, and Lord Corlys Velaryon. When the host of Lord Borros Baratheon arrived outside King's Landing, Larys offered to treat with the Lord of Storm's End on Trystane's behalf. Larys instead conspired with Perkin and the greens to betray Trystane and give the city to supporters of Aegon II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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