Heresy 234 and the coming of Winter

[Queen Allyria]

3 minutes ago, divica said:

I think there is one little problem that people tend to forget. Bran was headed in a dark path before he reached that cave. He warged into hodor and was in summer while it ate. Those are things he should never do and have probably corrupted him.

Given the TV show and the direction bran was going I wouldn t be surprised if he misuses his powers to punish his family enemies and become some supreme ruler. It would make sense for grrm to use him to show that power and tragedy corrupts even the purest of souls.

He definitely was. I've argued before that his coma dream is actually a reflection of the tale of the Nights King. So many of the same elements are present symbolically. Maybe not an exact match. But enough to be reminded.

And he has basically committed all of the "abominations" at this point. But he also didn't realize that they were wrong. Is that his fault or the fault of the person teaching him? 

But maybe he already paid the price for those things?  BloodRaven lost an eye to be a Greenseer. Bran lost his legs. And he already symbolically gave his soul to the 3EC in his dream via corn. 

In the show they made Dany the ultimate villain. But that was something easy to show and powerful cinema. In the book it always seems to be 3 people in question every time at least. One of them is always wrong or portrayed wrongly though it seems. 

 

[divica]

4 minutes ago, Queen Allyria said:

He definitely was. I've argued before that his coma dream is actually a reflection of the tale of the Nights King. So many of the same elements are present symbolically. Maybe not an exact match. But enough to be reminded.

And he has basically committed all of the "abominations" at this point. But he also didn't realize that they were wrong. Is that his fault or the fault of the person teaching him? 

But maybe he already paid the price for those things?  BloodRaven lost an eye to be a Greenseer. Bran lost his legs. And he already symbolically gave his soul to the 3EC in his dream via corn. 

In the show they made Dany the ultimate villain. But that was something easy to show and powerful cinema. In the book it always seems to be 3 people in question every time at least. One of them is always wrong or portrayed wrongly though it seems. 

 

Him not realizing he is comiting abominations is actually pretty scary and says quite a lot about his definition of right and wrong.

If aegon ends up on the IT and not being that great of a dude would you find strange if bran warged him from time to time in order to force him to "make the right decisions"?

[Black Crow]

10 hours ago, divica said:

Him not realizing he is comiting abominations is actually pretty scary and says quite a lot about his definition of right and wrong.

But entirely compatible with GRRM's remarks on how tyrants see themselves as good and justified

[alienarea]

In short, Bran ending up on the throne in the end is GRRMs way of letting us know that evil wins.

We do not have a Night King in the books to lead the army of the dead, but while the series moved beyond the books there was some speculation (also based on facial similarities) that Bran is / becomes the Night King.

Is this what GRRM has in mind and DnD didn't dare to tell?

[Black Crow]

14 minutes ago, alienarea said:

In short, Bran ending up on the throne in the end is GRRMs way of letting us know that evil wins.

We do not have a Night King in the books to lead the army of the dead, but while the series moved beyond the books there was some speculation (also based on facial similarities) that Bran is / becomes the Night King.

Is this what GRRM has in mind and DnD didn't dare to tell?

I doubt it, as I've said before, while Bran's elevation in the Mummers' Farce might be incomprehensible to non-reading viewers its entirely consistent with his "progress" in the book and with the Mabinogion. The pantomime villain styled the Nights King is most likely a creation of the Mummers to put a face to the "enemy", but Heresy 235 may provide an opportunity to explore this.

[divica]

24 minutes ago, alienarea said:

In short, Bran ending up on the throne in the end is GRRMs way of letting us know that evil wins.

We do not have a Night King in the books to lead the army of the dead, but while the series moved beyond the books there was some speculation (also based on facial similarities) that Bran is / becomes the Night King.

Is this what GRRM has in mind and DnD didn't dare to tell?

I am not sure about bran being the NK, but he does appear to become evil.

I also have some doubts about the story ending with evil bran on the IT or if he is the last enemy like the shire was in lotr. Like they destroy the throne with bran on it and then wach kingdom separates.

8 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

I doubt it, as I've said before, while Bran's elevation in the Mummers' Farce might be incomprehensible to non-reading viewers its entirely consistent with his "progress" in the book and with the Mabinogion. The pantomime villain styled the Nights King is most likely a creation of the Mummers to put a face to the "enemy", but Heresy 235 may provide an opportunity to explore this.

I disagree. Before the show bran seemed to be en route to become a religious figure. Now I have no idea how dark bran might become...

[Tucu]

GRRM spent a few paragraphs in Fire&Blood on characters debating the morality of First Night and its origin in the Age of Heroes and a few more in the Doctrine of Exceptionalism. Gods and Heroes are beyond common men morality. Wonders and terrors.

Quote

For these men who are small can never stand tall,
whilst giants still walk in the light.

 

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Black Crow said:

I doubt it, as I've said before, while Bran's elevation in the Mummers' Farce might be incomprehensible to non-reading viewers its entirely consistent with his "progress" in the book and with the Mabinogion. The pantomime villain styled the Nights King is most likely a creation of the Mummers to put a face to the "enemy", but Heresy 235 may provide an opportunity to explore this.

OK, I'm getting an  R + L = NK vibe here.

[Frey family reunion]

I doubt Bran’s “evil”.  He’s young, immature, and understandably angry regarding his lot in life.  The problem is when someone with this level of immaturity also has great telepathic powers and may be joining a telepathic network that can affect the outside environment and perhaps even reach back in time and affect events, how does this play out?

I’ve brought this up in another thread, but my guess is we saw an example of Bran’s unintended use of his telepathic powers, when the direwolves cornered Tyrion.  Tyrion had just referred to Bran as a cripple, a word that Bran hates.  It was in that moment the Direwolves came in the Hall and zeroes in on Tyrion with Summer leading the way.

So I guess the issue will be, how much of a mentor will Bloodraven be for Bran.  Will he help curb Bran’s worst impulses or will he encourage them?

[divica]

25 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I doubt Bran’s “evil”.  He’s young, immature, and understandably angry regarding his lot in life.  The problem is when someone with this level of immaturity also has great telepathic powers and may be joining a telepathic network that can affect the outside environment and perhaps even reach back in time and affect events, how does this play out?

I’ve brought this up in another thread, but my guess is we saw an example of Bran’s unintended use of his telepathic powers, when the direwolves cornered Tyrion.  Tyrion had just referred to Bran as a cripple, a word that Bran hates.  It was in that moment the Direwolves came in the Hall and zeroes in on Tyrion with Summer leading the way.

So I guess the issue will be, how much of a mentor will Bloodraven be for Bran.  Will he help curb Bran’s worst impulses or will he encourage them?

If killing a kid killing a cat is a signal that he might be a psychopath then a kid mind raping a man risking his life to help him isn t much better. 

And while they are 2 completely different types of evil they are both evil

[alienarea]

49 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

 He’s young, immature, and understandably angry regarding his lot in life.  The problem is when someone with this level of immaturity also has great telepathic powers and may be joining a telepathic network that can affect the outside environment and perhaps even reach back in time and affect events, how does this play out?

Anakin Skywalker?

 

[Black Crow]

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I doubt Bran’s “evil”.  

Its worth just bearing in mind that GRRM said that Jon will become darker