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Black Crow

Heresy 234 and the coming of Winter

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26 minutes ago, alienarea said:

The last hero loses his dog, too, doesn't he? 

And maybe the children help him by giving him a direwolf (and bonding him to it?)?

Curiously,  Borroq refers to Ghost as Jon's dog.

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

"And where will you be, crow?" Borroq thundered. "Hiding here in Castle Black with your white dog?"

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Edit: one extra bit that I forgot: Sansa Stark also transformed into stone: from Stark to Stone.

It sounds to me that Bran is bound to Winterfell regardless.  

As for Sansa, I've always found it curious that the Eyries' way castles are stone, snow and sky.   I wonder if we'll see the little bird's transformation along these lines as well.

 

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25 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It sounds to me that Bran is bound to Winterfell regardless. 

I would say that Bran is linked to Winterfell, but his power not longer bound by it.

 

26 minutes ago, LynnS said:

As for Sansa, I've always found it curious that the Eyries' way castles are stone, snow and sky.   I wonder if we'll see the little bird's transformation along these lines as well.

It looks like that. Sansa is doing a dual transformation. From little bird to mocking bird and soon bird of prey. She also went from being a Stark to a Stone, then she had her snowflake communion and if she becomes a bird of prey then the sky and the eyrie are hers.

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11 hours ago, LynnS said:

It sounds to me that Bran is bound to Winterfell regardless.  

As for Sansa, I've always found it curious that the Eyries' way castles are stone, snow and sky.   I wonder if we'll see the little bird's transformation along these lines as well.

 

Struggling with allergies I read Sansa Shark, LOL.

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12 hours ago, Tucu said:

... one extra bit that I forgot: Sansa Stark also transformed into stone: from Stark to Stone.

Ah. but rescued by the snowflake communion.

Just as the big mistake too many make is in regarding this story as a game of thrones centering around the discovery of the rightful heir to the Targaryen throne, rather than looking at the wider, magical conflict between Ice and Fire, so that magical conflict itself has its competing players and perhaps Littlefinger/Loki is one of them

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2 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Ah. but rescued by the snowflake communion.

Just as the big mistake too many make is in regarding this story as a game of thrones centering around the discovery of the rightful heir to the Targaryen throne, rather than looking at the wider, magical conflict between Ice and Fire, so that magical conflict itself has its competing players and perhaps Littlefinger/Loki is one of them

I agree. Each Stark and Targ will carve their own paths with the help of their guides.

Right now I am just wondering what is the meaning of the symbolism of exiled nobles encased in stone. JonCon and maybe Tyrion in the Surrows touched by the stonemen, Sansa as Alayne Stone, Rickon with the stoneborn in Skagos, "still as stone" Arya goes to "all stone" Braavos to sleep in a stone bed, Bran first in Winterfell and then in the CoTF cave.

Edited by Tucu

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That's part of it certainly, but I'm also inclined to look wider. The Mummer's version introduced a character called the Night's King. Winter, the White Walkers and the Wights were all down to him and when he got offed by Arya it all went away.

In reality, or at least GRRM's vision, there is no one adversary. Just as there were multiple parties striving to take the Iron Throne, we have multiple players in the struggle between Ice and Fire. The Starks, obviously, if perhaps too unwittingly, but there are others too. There is, or used to be , a fan theory out there that Roose Bolton has been offed by his supposed son Ramsay, but there are some significant loose threads anent Roose. There's Mance Rayder of course, but there are others too, just as by the Fireside there's Our Mel and Master Benero. There's Danaerys the Dragonlord, who like the Starks seems blissfully oblivious to the wider struggle, and so on... 

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I just wondered whether Roose Bolton and Mance Rayder are more familiar with each other than we know? The tv series skipped the whole Winterfell plot and quickly offed Roose, out of the blue, once they passed the books.

In the books, Ramsay is riding with his troops for Stannis while Roose and Mance are in Winterfell in "unknown" condition.

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There's also that book which Roose found in Harrenhall, read, inwardly digested and then burned to make sure nobody else found whatever he had learned.

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A bit of a tangent, but this caught my eye from an interview

Quote

There’s few acts of kindness in your novels. If somebody is on their own, or weakened, they can pretty much expect everybody to take advantage of them or treat them terribly. Obviously Aslan is not going to save the day, but are your books cynical about human nature?

I think the books are realistic. I’ve always liked gray characters. And as for the gods, I’ve never been satisfied by any of the answers that are given. If there really is a benevolent loving god, why is the world full of rape and torture? Why do we even have pain? I was taught pain is to let us know when our body is breaking down. Well, why couldn’t we have a light? Like a dashboard light? If Chevrolet could come up with that, why couldn’t God? Why is agony a good way to handle things?

https://ew.com/article/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/  

Does this tell us anything about Quaithe's instruction "You must pass beneath the shadow and touch the light"?

The shadow being the Shadow Beneath the Mother of Mountains, at Vaes Dothrak, where Dany is now headed or 'going back". My sense is that she will be turned over the Dosh Khaleen and indoctrinated into their secrets and mysteries.  One of which could be "touching the light."  Something she will have to do before she moves forward.  Will there be pain and suffering or will she get a dashboard light?

Edited by LynnS

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On 2/27/2021 at 8:11 AM, Tucu said:

I agree. Each Stark and Targ will carve their own paths with the help of their guides.

Right now I am just wondering what is the meaning of the symbolism of exiled nobles encased in stone. JonCon and maybe Tyrion in the Surrows touched by the stonemen, Sansa as Alayne Stone, Rickon with the stoneborn in Skagos, "still as stone" Arya goes to "all stone" Braavos to sleep in a stone bed, Bran first in Winterfell and then in the CoTF cave.

Waking "giants" from stone...

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5 hours ago, LynnS said:

A bit of a tangent, but this caught my eye from an interview

https://ew.com/article/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/  

Does this tell us anything about Quaithe's instruction "You must pass beneath the shadow and touch the light"?

The shadow being the Shadow Beneath the Mother of Mountains, at Vaes Dothrak, where Dany is now headed or 'going back". My sense is that she will be turned over the Dosh Khaleen and indoctrinated into their secrets and mysteries.  One of which could be "touching the light."  Something she will have to do before she moves forward.  Will there be pain and suffering or will she get a dashboard light?

Pain and suffering. It's GRRM.

Also, no dashboard lights on Dothraki horses ;)

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8 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Waking "giants" from stone...

Right. GRRM might be going with the normal-sized greek giants (the Gigantes). They are the savage offpring of Gaia (earth) and the blood of Uranus (sky) after his castration by their son Cronus. After the Gigantomachy (battle with the Olympian gods) some were buried under volcanoes and filtered into Roman myths: Enceladus under Mount Etna and Alcyoneus under Mount Vesuvius. This is from Cassius Dio account of the eruption that buried Pompeii

Quote

Then suddenly a portentous crash was heard, as if the mountains were tumbling in ruins; and first huge stones were hurled aloft, rising as high as the very summits, then came a great quantity of fire and endless smoke, so that the whole atmosphere was obscured and the sun was entirely hidden, as if eclipsed.  Thus day was turned into night and light into darkness. Some thought that the Giants were rising again in revolt (for at this time also many of their forms could be discerned in the smoke and, moreover, a sound as of trumpets was heard), while others believed that the whole universe was being resolved into chaos or fire.

 

Edited by Tucu

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