Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I am careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 The only place I talk to people is here. I mean that they are ticked off about school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I am careful. I have real life experience with someone your age who wasn't careful. I can't stress enough never to give out any personal information no matter how friendly someone seems. Never give out your name, address, phone number or post pictures of yourself on the internet. Now why would your parents be upset with you posting here? Because I would prefer that they know you post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said: The only place I talk to people is here. I mean that they are ticked off about school. Oh I see. Well they should know that you are having a conversation here. That is the correct and responsible thing for you to do. I consider this site a safe place; but I would feel more comfortable if your parents are aware of your participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 hours ago, LynnS said: George R.R. Martin: You're supposed to debate that. Melisandre wanted everyone to think that the spell she did with the leaches killed the three kings, but there is another explanation: Her ability to see the future through the flames showed her that the three kings were going to die because of the machinations of other characters. Seeing their deaths were coming, she staged this demonstration to take credit for their deaths. Very slippery trick! It could be that Melisandre knows that the Prince that was Promised was to come from Dragonstone. Stannis held Dragonstone, but Daenerys was born there as well as Aegon. If she's trying to manipulate prophecy she could be linking the prince prophecy to Azor Ahai reborn. These ancient myths are intended to confuse us and I think GRRM would like to fulfill them as ironically as the pub sign with a castle on it. And what's with the "weasel" wording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 3/17/2021 at 9:02 AM, Frey family reunion said: I think you misunderstood my point. I acknowledged that TPTWP seemed to deal with the following: the battle for the dawn, the involvement of dragons, and some synchronicity with the Azhor Ahai prophecy. So I think it's essential that the prince that was promised prophecy deals with the messiah having a connection with dragons. What I don't think is that the prophecy necessarily dealt with the messiah bringing back dragons from extinction. Based on the timing of the prophecy, it occurred while dragons were aplenty. And yet, the dragons are the proof that she is AA, apparently. If it was just 'PtwP is dragon-involved' then she wouldn't be 'proven' PtwP - anyone who comes after her can be 'dragon-involved' again now. I guess that the combination of her bringing back dragons and the bleeding star, might be the 'proof' Aemon talks about. Anyone coming 'later' won't be symbolically attached to the bleeding star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, Melifeather said: These ancient myths are intended to confuse us and I think GRRM would like to fulfill them as ironically as the pub sign with a castle on it. And what's with the "weasel" wording? I don't know! LOL! But ironically, yes. I think the Mother of Dragons and Azor Ahai constitute a pair. The mother of dragons hatches dragons from stone and is then the sacrifice for making the sword that is always warm to the touch. I can easily see Nissa Nissa as a dragon with a human soul as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, corbon said: And yet, the dragons are the proof that she is AA, apparently. If it was just 'PtwP is dragon-involved' then she wouldn't be 'proven' PtwP - anyone who comes after her can be 'dragon-involved' again now. I guess that the combination of her bringing back dragons and the bleeding star, might be the 'proof' Aemon talks about. Anyone coming 'later' won't be symbolically attached to the bleeding star. Yes. That is a good point. Daenerys successfully hatched dragons so that must be a prerequisite for fulfilling the prince that was promised prophecy. The thing about this prophecy is that I'm not sure its all that old. It seems like the woods witch that was with Jenny of Oldstones is the one that came up with it. Azor Ahai, on the other hand, might be older, but its hard to tell. Only two people talk about him: Melisandre and Salladhor Saan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, corbon said: And yet, the dragons are the proof that she is AA, apparently. If it was just 'PtwP is dragon-involved' then she wouldn't be 'proven' PtwP - anyone who comes after her can be 'dragon-involved' again now. I guess that the combination of her bringing back dragons and the bleeding star, might be the 'proof' Aemon talks about. Anyone coming 'later' won't be symbolically attached to the bleeding star. Clearly Sam the Slayer is Azor Ahai. OK...his weapon was not a sword but a dagger...it was made of fire, well frozen fire. The monster he thrusted his blade into didn't exactly bursted into flame, but it misted quite a bit. His dagger didn't have a light, but he has a friend that owns a glass candle. He was not born of salt and smoke, but he is Lord of Ham. Prophecies and visions are tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tucu said: Clearly Sam the Slayer is Azor Ahai. OK...his weapon was not a sword but a dagger...it was made of fire, well frozen fire. The monster he thrusted his blade into didn't exactly bursted into flame, but it misted quite a bit. Prophecies and visions are tricky. I was just going to say something similar. Not about Sam, but about Azor Ahai slaying a beast with his red sword of heroes, Lightbringer. Quote A Dance with Dragons - Jon III "His Grace is not an easy man. Few are, who wear a crown. Many good men have been bad kings, Maester Aemon used to say, and some bad men have been good kings." "He would know." Aemon Targaryen had seen nine kings upon the Iron Throne. He had been a king's son, a king's brother, a king's uncle. "I looked at that book Maester Aemon left me. The Jade Compendium. The pages that told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife's blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame." The beast that Azor Ahai slew burst into flame. The "beast" that Sam slew melted and turned into mist. I still think that the desired result of identifying the Prince that was Promised is to find the person that knows how to hatch dragons. Azor Ahai, on the other hand, is someone that would want to slay a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Melifeather said: The beast that Azor Ahai slew burst into flame. The "beast" that Sam slew melted and turned into mist. I still think that the desired result of identifying the Prince that was Promised is to find the person that knows how to hatch dragons. Azor Ahai, on the other hand, is someone that would want to slay a dragon. I'm going with the twist that AA in this cycle isn't a fiery priest, but an icy king who thrusts his valyrian steel sword into the holy dragon heart, absorbing the soul and holy fire and then he bursts into flame. LOL Or the soul is cleansed, one or the other. Quote A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce. The soul of ice needs a cleansing. If ice can burn... love and hate can mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, Melifeather said: I was just going to say something similar. Not about Sam, but about Azor Ahai slaying a beast with his red sword of heroes, Lightbringer. The beast that Azor Ahai slew burst into flame. The "beast" that Sam slew melted and turned into mist. I still think that the desired result of identifying the Prince that was Promised is to find the person that knows how to hatch dragons. Azor Ahai, on the other hand, is someone that would want to slay a dragon. Yes, AA sounds more like a dragonslayer than a dragonrider. Someone like Harghaz the Hero, but a bit more successful. The Drogon and Harghaz scenes are full of AA references; we can see how legends are created. The fight scene is too long to quote, but this later reference makes fun of heroes. Quote Gerris laughed. "A pity we have none. Do you trust this peace, Quent? I don't. Half the city is calling the dragonslayer a hero, and the other half spits blood at the mention of his name." "Harzoo," the big man said. Quentyn frowned. "His name was Harghaz." "Hizdahr, Humzum, Hagnag, what does it matter? I call them all Harzoo. He was no dragonslayer. All he did was get his arse roasted black and crispy." Black and crispy...like bacon (smoke and salt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Anybody can kill a white walker, they just need to have the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, LynnS said: Oh I see. Well they should know that you are having a conversation here. That is the correct and responsible thing for you to do. I consider this site a safe place; but I would feel more comfortable if your parents are aware of your participation. Absolutely not. They can't know, they'd be ticked off because it distracts from school. Now, let's get back to the real topic of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Absolutely not. They can't know, they'd be ticked off because it distracts from school. Now, let's get back to the real topic of the thread. Wrong answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Tucu said: Azor Ahai, on the other hand, is someone that would want to slay a dragon. I don't honestly believe this. One, Azor Ahai is never recorded as a dragonslayer, which I think would probably come to the front if GRRM wanted AA to be a dragonslayer. Two, dragons are very hard to kill and this is repeated over and over in ADWD and FaB. It doesn't mean they can't be killed, but killing a dragon is very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Melifeather said: Yes. That is a good point. Daenerys successfully hatched dragons so that must be a prerequisite for fulfilling the prince that was promised prophecy. The thing about this prophecy is that I'm not sure its all that old. It seems like the woods witch that was with Jenny of Oldstones is the one that came up with it. Azor Ahai, on the other hand, might be older, but its hard to tell. Only two people talk about him: Melisandre and Salladhor Saan. I think we can be fairly confident that Aemon knows the exact wording and/or context of the PtwP prophecy, be it weasely words or no. So here are a few things that seem to be relevant. Quote But all of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, "It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?" It seems that Aemon believes the PtwP is supposed to be directly connected to the war for the Dawn. He seems to expect that when the WftD happens, the PtwP should be involved. Quote On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo's talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger." The PtwP will be involved in the WftD. His (or her) birth (literal or metaphorical I guess) will involve smoke and salt. Plus a bleeding star. And hatching dragons is proof somehow. Quote She (Melisandre) talks of prophecies . . . a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone It is claar that Mel's AA and Aemon's PtwP is the same prophecy - aside from Mel using both terms (she could be just co-opting the PtwP prophecy in order to get Westerosi support for her AA), its clear that the requirements for both use the same features - born amidst soke and salt , heralded by a bleeding star/red comet, and waking dragons from stone/the dragons are the proof. But Mel claims this prophecy is 5000 years old, not recent. I don't see how one can be a recent woods witch prophecy and the other 5000 years old when they clearly have complete overlap in every detail that has been mentioned. I suspect that earlier generations that still had dragons didn't take too much notice of the waking dragons from stone part. But given Dany's dargons are 'the proof' to Aemon, and Mel talking about waking dragons from stone, I think that element is clearly an old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Harzoo the dragonslayer was a fool that got his butt roasted crispy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Signing off, good sers and noble ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I don't honestly believe this. One, Azor Ahai is never recorded as a dragonslayer, which I think would probably come to the front if GRRM wanted AA to be a dragonslayer. Two, dragons are very hard to kill and this is repeated over and over in ADWD and FaB. It doesn't mean they can't be killed, but killing a dragon is very hard. Quote Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame." This monster may have been a dragon. Probably not, but I don't think its n entirely fair statement to say that that he is never recorded as a dragonslayer. He is recorded as a beast slayer, a beast that burst into flame. I wonder what would happen if the internal combustion mechanism in a dragon's belly had a (special) sword thrust through it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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