Why manderly support of Robb so small?

[Mrstrategy]

Why is the Manderly support of Robb small when he calls the banners when he controls the largest city in the north with many knights and vassals ?other major houses like Bolton,Umber ,Karstark send larger forces south that Manderly

[Canon Claude]

27 minutes ago, Mrstrategy said:

Why is the Manderly support of Robb small when he calls the banners when he controls the largest city in the north with many knights and vassals ?other major houses like Bolton,Umber ,Karstark send larger forces south that Manderly

Ned ordered Manderly to fortify the city and build a fleet, so Wyman had other tasks to carry out. 

[Curled Finger]

There is the small matter of White Harbor requiring defense as the wealthiest and closest thing to a city the North actually has.  

[saltedmalted]

20 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Ned ordered Manderly to fortify the city and build a fleet, so Wyman had other tasks to carry out. 

Builders are not interchangeble with soldiers. 

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, saltedmalted said:

Builders are not interchangeble with soldiers. 

Both require large amounts of manpower. When you raise a large army at a moment's notice you're taking people away from other trades.

[saltedmalted]

9 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Both require large amounts of manpower. When you raise a large army at a moment's notice you're taking people away from other trades.

Raising an army at a momen's notice means most of your soldiers are men-at-arms not peasants with spears. 

[Thomas Turncloak]

ACOK states 1500 Manderly men joined Robb's army with 20 knights. Given their vast wealth, holdings, and White Harbour- you'd think they contribute more. 

[Loose Bolt]

If Northern navy has about 50 ships and each of those would demand crew of 200 that would mean that house Manderly would have to somehow find and train about 10.000 men for that purpose. So just manning the navy would cause massive demand of manpower near White Harbor.

[saltedmalted]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

So just manning the navy would cause massive demand of manpower near White Harbor

Why would Manderly choose the navy over bolstering his land troops?

[The Young Maester]

9 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Raising an army at a momen's notice means most of your soldiers are men-at-arms not peasants with spears. 

In asoiaf this concept dosent exist. One moment soldiers are professional man at arms that thrive in the life of death and slaughter. The next day they are conscripted peasants that miss their warm homes.

[Loose Bolt]

4 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Why would Manderly choose the navy over bolstering his land troops?

It is much easier to feed and protect a city if they have a navy. After all during long winter working sea lines would be literally vital.

Besides White Harbor and any ship sailing either from or to there are potential target for pirates, raiders and even slavers and so strong navy would be necessary to stop those having an idea that WH and their ships would be easy pray. Or WH cannot anymore rely on support of Royal or Vale Navies but they would have to protect themselves.

[saltedmalted]

34 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Besides White Harbor and any ship sailing either from or to there are potential target for pirates, raiders and even slavers and so strong navy would be necessary to stop those having an idea that WH and their ships would be easy pray.

Fighting off raiders and pirates does not need massive warships. For all we know Maderly already had ships to patrol the waters close to WH.

35 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Or WH cannot anymore rely on support of Royal or Vale Navies but they would have to protect themselves.

This does not required such a large buildup that Manderly must reduce his contribution to the Nothern host.

[Loose Bolt]

3 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Fighting off raiders and pirates does not need massive warships. For all we know Maderly already had ships to patrol the waters close to WH.

This does not required such a large buildup that Manderly must reduce his contribution to the Nothern host.

Powerful piratelord like Salladhor Saan could command fleet of 29 ships. Besides as long as Manderly had rich enemies there was a chance that one of them could hire many sellsails to cause problems to WH. There was also a possibility that either Iron Throne or Stannis would have used Royal Fleet against the North.

So I think that building that navy was a good idea

[saltedmalted]

3 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Powerful piratelord like Salladhor Saan could command fleet of 29 ships.

If a piratelord can afford to have 29 ships then Manderly can have far more without any trouble.

4 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Besides as long as Manderly had rich enemies there was a chance that one of them could hire many sellsails to cause problems to WH.

Which enemies would these be?

5 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

There was also a possibility that either Iron Throne or Stannis would have used Royal Fleet against the North

Ned sent that message. The Royal Fleet was not a threat then.

5 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

So I think that building that navy was a good idea

Maybe, but building a fleet is a long term project. The vessels would take some time to be built

I doubt the ships are so direly needed that Manderly had to reduce his land troops.

[Loose Bolt]

9 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

f a piratelord can afford to have 29 ships then Manderly can have far more without any trouble.

If just one warship needs crew about 200 men then 30 ships would demand 6000 men who cannot serve anywhere else. Or those ships would became useless.

 

9 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Which enemies would these be?

Lannisters are rich and it is great miracle that Tywin or Cersei did not actually hire some sellsails just to cause some mayhem in/for the North.

 

9 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Ned sent that message. The Royal Fleet was not a threat then.

But to my knowledge no one in the North knew about that message and so they could not ignore a possibility that Royal Fleet would carry out raids against WH.

 

9 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

I doubt the ships are so direly needed that Manderly had to reduce his land troops

As soon as Robb rebelled against Iron Throne the North lost any potential support from Royal Navy. Or just in theory anybody who had enough available resources could have done what Ironborn did at Sunset Sea and started raiding eastern parts of the North.

So I think that there was huge and urgent demand for Northern Navy.

[Aebram]

It occurs to me that the Manderly fleet may play an important part in the events to come. Stannis will need ships to transport his sellswords (unless the Iron Bank finances the ships). The Nights Watch will need ships to bring in food (ditto), and possibly to rescue the wildlings at Hardhome.

So maybe the real reason Manderly built that fleet is because GRRM needed it.  

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Why is this an issue? 

It's not like Manderly was the only one holding back his full force. House Dustin and House Ryswell both sent a small portion of their bannermen to the Northern army, and given how many men the Tallharts and Cerwyns still managed to summon, it's clear that they didn't commit their full forces either. None of those houses were in trouble from Robb for that.

And that's another thing; Robb was moving in great haste to save his father and sisters from imprisonment. He didn't have time on his side, he summoned as many men as possible in as short a time as he could afford. And moreover, why would he leave the North completely undefended anyway? Those forces he left behind were ultimately needed, as we saw in the books.

[The Young Maester]

7 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

If just one warship needs crew about 200 men then 30 ships would demand 6000 men who cannot serve anywhere else. Or those ships would became useless.

It would require sailors not landed farmers that are more used to wielding pitchforks.

You cant turn a random artisan or a farmer into a sailor and sail them to war. Warships require experienced sailors, and even fisherman if the situation is desperate.

[Walda]

Quote

Ser Wylis and his brother Ser Wendel followed, leading their levies, near fifteen hundred men: some twenty-odd knights and as many squires, two hundred mounted lances, swordsmen, and freeriders, and the rest foot, armed with spears, pikes and tridents. Lord Wyman had remained behind to see to the defenses of White Harbor. A man of near sixty years, he had grown too stout to sit a horse. “If I had thought to see war again in my lifetime, I should have eaten a few less eels,” he’d told Catelyn when he met her ship, slapping his massive belly with both hands. His fingers were fat as sausages. “My boys will see you safe to your son, though, have no fear.”

(AGoT Ch 55 Catelyn VIII)

For comparison

Quote

The Karstarks came in on a cold windy morning, bringing three hundred horsemen and near two thousand foot from their castle at Karhold...

They were the last, he knew. The other lords were already here, with their hosts...

the mailed fist of the Glovers, silver on scarlet; Lady Mormont’s black bear; the hideous flayed man that went before Roose Bolton of the Dreadfort; a bull moose for the Hornwoods; a battle-axe for the Cerwyns; three sentinel trees for the Tallharts; and the fearsome sigil of House Umber, a roaring giant in shattered chains.

“How many is it now?” Bran asked Maester Luwin as Lord Karstark and his sons rode through the gates in the outer wall.
“Twelve thousand men, or near enough as makes no matter.” 
“How many knights?”...
Maester Luwin sighed. “Three hundred, perhaps four … among three thousand armored lances who are not knights.”

 

(AGoT 53 Bran VI)

12,000 divided by 8 is 1500. Seems to me Lord Manderly is nearly pulling his weight.

[Loose Bolt]

6 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

It would require sailors not landed farmers that are more used to wielding pitchforks.

You cant turn a random artisan or a farmer into a sailor and sail them to war. Warships require experienced sailors, and even fisherman if the situation is desperate.

That could be another reason why Manderly sent so few men with Robb. Or WH should have access to many sailors, fishermen and even some sellsails. Those people would have been very bad infantrymen but very useful as crew of warships.