WandaVision 2: Sitcoms and Superheroes and Spoilers too

[JGP]

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

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I don't think this makes her a "big bad" at all.  If I recall, you emphasized intent.  The episode makes pretty clear she did not "intend" to do any of this.  They even have Agatha explicitly grant Wanda impunity in that regard - "capable of spontaneous creation" - at the end.

 

Spoiler

Right. Perhaps you missed some of my back and forth with Kal et others. While it's possible I didn't render my argument as effectively as I thought, you missed my point. 

I was arguing that grief has weird ways, and that even if Wanda was behind all the mind control of Westview citizens, her intent wasn't evil per se, she just wanted Vision back and was otherwise grief-blind to consequences subsequent to that.

Which, without further doubt, is definitely the case.

 

 

 

[DMC]

Gotcha, fair enough.

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why did he falsify the video record of Wanda’s visit?

More importantly - how?!?  If SWORD or dagger or pointy end or whatever the fuck can't detect a deepfake so far removed from what actually happened either that's a really shitty spy agency or Hayward is a lot more powerful than we know so far.  The alternative is Hayward's video record is what happened and Agatha is manipulating Wanda's memories, which is interesting to entertain.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why did he falsify the video record of Wanda’s visit?

He did not, or rather he didn't create any new material. The video in Episode 5 just shows Wanda blasting open the door with magic (which she did) and smashing the glass (which she did) and it cuts out afterwards. We don't see her carrying his body outside because, well, she didn't. She created Nu-Vision using the power of the Mind Stone (which is interesting in itself, with him coalescing out of the gold energy rather than her scarlet magic).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 minutes ago, Werthead said:

He did not, or rather he didn't create any new material. The video in Episode 5 just shows Wanda blasting open the door with magic (which she did) and smashing the glass (which she did) and it cuts out afterwards. We don't see her carrying his body outside because, well, she didn't. She created Nu-Vision using the power of the Mind Stone (which is interesting in itself, with him coalescing out of the gold energy rather than her scarlet magic).

Yes.  So creative editing.  I still think it is interesting that Wanda is subcreating a new reality with power that seems very like that which the Reality Stone projected.

[Poobah]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Spoiler

 Only question that remains is who sent her that flyer, or I guess if, plus why..plus why she would care about it so much?  You two were on the run living in Edinburgh.

 

Spoiler

I got the impression that that was an actual property deed they'd bought together?

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 minutes ago, Poobah said:

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I got the impression that that was an actual property deed they'd bought together?

 

But... they had only just decided to attempt a life together when the Children of Thanos attacked in Edinburgh.  How could Vision or Wanda have bought that property that was under construction?

[Corvinus85]

That lying sack of shit, Hayward!

[sifth]

So long story short, it wasn't Agatha All Along, lol

[Corvinus85]

I missed Monica in this episode, but other than that, it was another good episode. The music was damn powerful, and Olsen was superb.

Agatha was only responsible for the glitches to get Wanda to snap out of her fantasy. It really is in the song's lyrics.

Hayward clearly taunted Wanda in the lab. So there might still be more to him than just an asshole Fury.

One popular theory that got busted is the identity of the two commercial actors: not Wanda's parents. Are they just Westview residents stuck in that role? Maybe the woman is Woo's mysterious protected witness.

Kathryn Hahn was slightly de-aged in the Salem flashback. It looked good, though the scene was probably the cringiest of the entire episode, and maybe show.

So Wanda and Vis bought that plot sometime before the Snap. My guess is Westivew was a quaint little town before, but the Blip brought it to ruin, and it doesn't look like it could recover. Mrs. Hart was all alone, so probably she got Snapped, her husband moved on, but Wanda's spell brought them back together.

 

[Sharpes]

This is one really trippy show and is doing a lot more to give life to these two characters than their movie presence ever did imo. Enjoying it so far even if the first episode was dragging it's feet way too long. You'd have to be pretty invested in these characters to get through all that old style narrative and humour.

So this is my limited understanding behind the meaning of each of the six commercials we've seen, perhaps a not very subtle hint at each of the Infinity Stones, each told through the lived experiences of Wanda and her powers: 1. The first commercial we get the black and white toaster with the beeping red light...it's the same Stark Industries missile that killed her parents in Sokovia. Also wasn't Vision sometimes referred to as a toaster in the comics? 2 alludes to Strucker and Hydra's experiment on Wanda. Could be something more with the 'he'll make time for you' tagline? 3 - Wanda being 'soaked' in the power of the Mind Stone and tapping into previously locked away powers. 4 - references the Lagos accident that Wanda still blames herself for, the event in Civil War where she rescued Captain America and countless civilians on the ground. (that dripping at the end of the table is kinda disconcerting).  5 - Wanda starving, emotionally and someone else feeding from her grief and power. Commercial 6 stumped me since I have no idea what Nexus was; after a cursory reading it could refer to the Nexus of All Realities, which "forms a pathway with access to all sorts of different realities and is a place where all realities intersect" and/or infers Wanda is a Nexus Being with the ability to channel energies other universes. The ad warns "you should not take Nexus until your doctor clears you to move on with your life," which I guess suggests a tie in with Doctor Strange 2? Throughout there's some stuff there about reinforced gender roles (as presented through media) and the breaking down of Wanda's control of this particular sitcom reality.

I take it Monica Rambeau's powers are spectral vision and energy absorption? She obviously has some resistance to the Westview mind control wave thing but would she have any chance against Agatha's mind control? On that note if Agatha's been around since the time of the Salem witches she'd be equivalent to Strange or Marvel yeah? (it would be ironic to find out that despite all her powers Thanos still managed to blip her away).

And who the heck appointed Hayward anyway? Surely not Fury?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, Sharpes said:

And who the heck appointed Hayward anyway? Surely not Fury?

It couldn’t have been Fury.  Fury was dusted in the Blip.  It may have been Monica’s mother Maria.

[Winterfell is Burning]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

It couldn’t have been Fury.  Fury was dusted in the Blip.  It may have been Monica’s mother Maria.

Actually, Hayward himself references the fact he got the job because he was the only option left. Probably everyone else got blipped or quit.

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But... they had only just decided to attempt a life together when the Children of Thanos attacked in Edinburgh.  How could Vision or Wanda have bought that property that was under construction?

Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. She was also a wanted fugitive from Civil War on. 

I don't understand why Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Vision's body. Or why he assumes the original Vision would be on his side in this whole thing. Or why Vision's white now when he had his normal coloring a week or so ago. 

[Corvinus85]

12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I don't understand why Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Vision's body. Or why he assumes the original Vision would be on his side in this whole thing. Or why Vision's white now when he had his normal coloring a week or so ago. 

He wants Vision re-activated but under his control. We see in that scene at the lab that he tries to goad Wanda with the possibility of resurrecting Vision. But that doesn't work. Then the Hex is discovered, and through the sitcom broadcast, he realizes that Wanda re-created Vision from nothing. Then he offers a motive for the group of people from multiple agencies to find a way in the Hex and end Wanda's fantasy - she stole Vision's body and she's unhinged.

[JGP]

12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. She was also a wanted fugitive from Civil War on. 

I don't understand why Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Vision's body. Or why he assumes the original Vision would be on his side in this whole thing. Or why Vision's white now when he had his normal coloring a week or so ago. 

Well, and I'm speculating here, one possibility is subsequent to the scene with Vision's corpse, Wanda's subconscious created the letter. First act in the breakdown chain and all that. Not sure how likely that is, nor how likely it was a nudge from someone something else.

Hayward's referred to Vision as a 'weapon, expensive hardware, blar de blar' a few times, iirc, so it would follow that an intent to reanimate and control something that advanced that he doesn't consider human, say, wouldn't be met with approval by Wanda, the Avengers, or possibly in general, Hayward doesn't want an independent Vision back, he wants a host with Vision's abilities to do with what he would. There was a stint in West Coast Avengers run where Vision was white. That was a long time ago so I can't recall the details offhand. It could simply be a callback, and symbolic for being a white board maybe.

       

[Heartofice]

Hmm, dunno how I feel about that episode. Really not sure I enjoyed it. 

SO on the nose with everything. "hey here's why the whole thing is a tv show" , "hey here is exactly who Agatha is". I didn't really find any of it especially engaging really, it didn't really leave any sort of questions lingering in my head. It just answered pretty much everything and.. quite frankly the answers are a little boring. 

I'm hoping there is much more to this than they are revealing, because otherwise I am disappointed.

Also, I really don't like Agatha as Agatha. Could she be any less witchy or intimidating?

Otherwise, I will say that Olsen was great this week, she pulled some acting chops, and there were one or two emotional moments that woke me from my slumber. 

 

[sifth]

For some daft reason, the ending of this episode, reminded me of the South Park episode, in which they kill Chief and bring him back as Darth Vader. That was the weird place my mind went to, lol

[SpaceChampion]

8 hours ago, Mr Gordo said:

Also Kathryn Hahn ( did I spell that right?) is a goddamn national treasure 

Hahn shot first.

[Argonath Diver]

I thought the Agatha origin scene may have been the absolute stupidest thing I've ever watched from the MCU. Had a hard time re-focusing after it, it was so jarring. 

I, for a fleeting moment, agree with HoI. I thought Hahn was by far the worst thing about the ep. Is she supposed to be frightening? Funny? Conflicted? Eeevil? It was a failure in every regard. I was really digging her in the sitcom eps and hoping for a less completely disappointing Real Agatha. 

Vision's line about grief as the persistence of love was terrific, and well delivered. Olsen and Bethany are at their best in those tender moments.  

I hope the next ep is a suitably epic finale, because this one was a total stinker for me. I don't think I'm suited for this specific show, alas. Bring on Loki in June.