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WandaVision 2: Sitcoms and Superheroes and Spoilers too


mormont

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If it is that he's just a fake, it does make his casting a huge tease, and retroactively robs that twist of some power.

The Agatha scene at the beginning was terrible, and I thought the Witch stuff was way too over the top in general. Otherwise, I thought it was a good episode and it got me surprisingly emotional.

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I think I'm beginning to figure out what's happening.

I brought up before that there was a discrepancy between Wanda's powers in the comics and in the movies.  In the comics she could alter probability to her benefit.  In the movies when we first meet her she has psionic powers, telepathy and telekinesis.

I'm starting to think that the movies are retconning her back to her original powers, and are going to give us an explanation of how she got so powerful.

Agatha tells Wanda that she used a probability hex to stop the bomb from exploding when she was a child.  That's her comic book powers, probability hex's.  That's probably her actual powers.

But then she is placed in a facility where she comes in contact with the "mind stone".  Next thing we know Wanda has mind control powers when the Avengers came into contact with her.  She then starts using telekinesis later in the movie and in the next group of movies.  Apparently Wanda is somehow able (perhaps due to her natural ability over probabilities) to absorb the powers from the mind stone.  And with her relationship with the Vision, it puts her in further contact with the mind stone.

Then later, Wanda comes in contact with Thanos, who was wielding all of the infinity stones at the time.  I'm starting to think that like she did with the mind stone Wanda absorbed the powers of all of the infinity stones at that point.  Including the reality stone and the time stone.

She's used the power of the reality stone to create the Westview world, it allowed her to manipulate matter into creating the city.  (you can even see the red ether that makes up the reality stone when she created Westview and the Vision).  She is using the powers of the mind stone to control the minds of the residents.  She has even used the power of the time stone to rewind events that displeased her.  And the reason she can do this on such a large scale is that the power stone amplifies the power from the other infinity stones. 

Wanda has basically become a living breathing infinity gauntlet.

 

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@Frey family reunion I like the cut of your jib.

I rewatched the episode again, since I was so irritated by the intro the first time that I didn't give the rest of the episode much thought. After fast forwarding through that low-tier 90s syndicated garbage scene, the rest of the episode was pretty darn good.

I again thought Vision whispering "What is grief, if not love persisting?" was a highlight of the series so far. I think it's the basic heroic theme of the show - assuming Wanda works through this terrible grief, saves the day from Misguided Govt Guy #491, and issues a super-serious thank you to all the residents she tortured for a couple weeks. If she indeed took this entire town captive for long, it really was an awful thing to do, and I can only imagine they'll try to quickly shoo it under the rug so she can find out there's a Major New Player to worry about in Phase 4. Maybe she'll give them all nice yards and fashion makeovers! Poof! Sorry bout that, fam!

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Multiverse is going to multiverse.  I think it is just as probable that Agatha plucked another Pietro from another universe, possibly leading the cracking of the multiverse wall...I mean, Wanda says you can't bring back the dead, yet Agatha indicates that necromancy is absolutely a thing...

We've now seen five magic colors...? Red for Wanda, Purple for Agatha, Blue for the Salem Witches, Yellow and Green for Strange...

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14 hours ago, RumHam said:

Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. She was also a wanted fugitive from Civil War on. 

I don't understand why Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Vision's body.

Agreed on both counts.  Immediately before Thanos' horsemen attack, Vision is basically doing the robot version of proposing to Wanda.  That conversation doesn't make sense if they already bought a house together.  I guess maybe Vision bought the house and just hadn't told Wanda yet, but that'd be putting the cart before the horse even if robots could buy property.

And yeah, if Hayward was trying to get the actual Vision online all this time, seems pretty stupid to claim Wanda stole his body.

Anyway, man, y'all really didn't like that opening scene.  I didn't think it was great or anything, but the worst thing ever in the MCU?  Did y'all see Iron Man 3 or Thor 2?  Hell even Ant Man 2 was pretty damn stupid.

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16 minutes ago, DMC said:

Hell even Ant Man 2 was pretty damn stupid.

Maybe a bit, I was entertained though. I still chuckle when I think about the running Baba Yaga joke.

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6 hours ago, RumHam said:

Do we really want a crossover with the Fox movies? I mean we're apparently getting one with Deadpool 3 but he's a special case and I'm really curious how they'll handle his fourth wall breaking. Anyway I'd rather Marvel Studios just do their own take on the X-Men. 

I could see Even Peter's character being an alternate Peitro maybe, but I just can't imagine them somehow indicating "Hey this is the guy from those other movies" 

But the way that Agatha called him a fake I think suggests he's just that. That would have been the moment I think to confirm he was from another world. And as I said above it seems really unlikely that Agatha has the power to access other dimensions and travel through time, but traveling to Europe to get Peitro's body was unfeasible. 

But hey I'm usually wrong about these things. 

Well I was quite excited when they introduced Pietro to Wandavision, because it alluded to something a lot bigger going on. I wasn't really all that interested in a Xverse crossover, I think X-Men has been rung dry by Fox and basically ruined. But seeing that possibility dangled in front of me I started to imagine all the ways in which Marvel could give me a proper X-Men movie, something I don't think I've gotten yet (Logan being the best IMO)

If Agatha isn't able to access other dimensions, then this Pietro looking like the Fox version is probably nothing more than an in-joke, which is a massive slap in the face to fans, especially the rabid internet version of fans. 

The other solution is, she's lying and she does have access to other dimensions, or that she is being given powers by something else.This episode seemed to quell all the Mephisto rumours and chat, which is a shame because I felt like the main reason I was watching the show was to try and pick out the subtle hints and clues about devils etc.

Hopefully all that stuff is still in there and we aren't getting what it appears on its face. Having said that it wouldn't be a big surprise for a Marvel property to promise a lot and under deliver and have me checking my phone towards the end.

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26 minutes ago, DMC said:

Anyway, man, y'all really didn't like that opening scene.  I didn't think it was great or anything, but the worst thing ever in the MCU?  Did y'all see Iron Man 3 or Thor 2?  Hell even Ant Man 2 was pretty damn stupid.

It was awful, much worse and stupider than anything in Iron man 3 or Thor 2. It reminded me of the crappy teen soap that they were writing in Netflix's Love.. what was it called? Witchita? 

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My guess is they’ll leave some multiverse things dangling, leaving the possible interpretation that Agnes could have plucked him from another universe, but not dwell on it. I get what you’re saying HoI, but I’d still hate to take on any baggage from the Foxverse. I’d rather they just hadn’t bothered with the casting at all, actually.

With the opening scene, this is tenuous, but could we interpret it is as part of Wanda’s show? If Wanda is the one doing all the sitcom related stuff, that means she responded to the Agatha reveal by creating a closing ‘theme’ for ‘it was Agatha all along’. So she should be just as capable of creating a fake backstory as well? Likely not, as the aspect ratio usually changes for that. But hopefully they leave that as potential head canon anyway. It was way, way stupider than Thor 2 (average, but well inside the MCU mold) and Iron Man 3 (pretty good movie, don’t know why it gets picked on). To me it’s no different from revealing Santa is real; it’s taking a separate fiction from outside the MCU (witches) and not bothering with any world building because they assume we know how witches work. It reminded me of when Smallville did the same thing, and I hated it then. WandaVision put barely any more effort in than Smallville did.

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Yeah like I think Agathas dungeon is cheap daytime teen lit inspired decoration, and I’m seriously hoping it’s not meant to look like that, I’m still partly hoping that the whole Salem thing was an illusion too, or some sort of facade.

The issue is that the show is so immaculately produced, the sets and design are brilliant and well observed down to the last detail.

To then come out with the set of Goosebumps or Sabrina the Teenage Witch makes me think something else must be going on. 
 

Ive been delving a little deeper into internet chat on Chaos magic and the multiple origin stories for the Scarlet Witch , there is still a lot of room in this story for a Mephisto style man behind the curtain, so that gives me hope 

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59 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

it’s taking a separate fiction from outside the MCU (witches) and not bothering with any world building because they assume we know how witches work.

I'm not really sure I get the nature of this complaint.  Witches have been mentioned before in the MCU - in Ragnarok Loki says "I'm not a witch" and Thor quips "then why do you dress like one?"; then in Endgame Frigga reminds Thor that she was raised by witches.  As for assuming we know how witches work, I feel like this entire criticism could be leveled at Thor/Asgard and the mythology there - from his hammer to Loki as a trickster to the Valkyries to Fenrir.  

It would seem from the way Agatha is dressed at the end of the episode that witches do "work" how we would assume.  I don't really have a problem with that.  I mean, I guess they could do a whole origin film trying to explain things like Dr. Strange, but in my book - and in Tony Stark's - those guys are still just silly wizards.

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5 hours ago, DMC said:

You and I, sir, have vastly different opinions on how stupid those two movies were.

Yep I put Iron Man 3 down at the bottom as well but the circle of spooky witches with blue chest magic dueling angry purple magic was absolutely atrocious, especially with Hahn and her mom's faces that looked like they were having a bad shit contest. I never, ever agree with HoI but damn that scene was aggressively dumb. 

I don't really care about comic book logic, and once the MCU threw in lightning eyed space gods any sensical explanations of super powers are unnecessary. But cmon. Harry Potter kids movies did the magic beam tug of war schlock ages ago. I'll die on this hill that said scene was the nadir. No accounting for taste. As stated, some later bits were excellent,  though, and I sure hope the finale is a banger. 

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4 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

But cmon. Harry Potter kids movies did the magic beam tug of war schlock ages ago.

I guess I just don't get the big difference between this and, say, Captain Marvel using her magic beam to take on Thanos with the infinity gauntlet until he uses the power stone to punch her, or Thor's SUPER magical hammer being able to go through Thanos' magic beam to stab him.

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3 hours ago, DMC said:

As for assuming we know how witches work, I feel like this entire criticism could be leveled at Thor/Asgard and the mythology there - from his hammer to Loki as a trickster to the Valkyries to Fenrir.  

I mean ultimately it has as much logic to it, sure, but the first Thor film knew it was a harder sell than Iron Man and Cap. It had to do a bunch of exposition and backstory on Asgard, which has been expanded on in half a dozen films now. And while it’s based on Norse mythology, the Marvel comics Thor has plenty to differentiate him so it’s still Marvel’s fiction.

I guess we all have our different points at which something becomes stupid, and witches is mine, because it feels lazy to just wholesale steal the entire trope for a cold open like that. We needed a softer intro to all of this. As I mentioned, it’s like introducing Santa and hoping we’re all fine with his existence cos we probably know all the backstory.

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Re-watching the Salem scene, I almost believe that Agatha goaded them into trying to kill her, in order to absorb their powers... almost. Her scream of pain is always threatening to turn into maniacal laughter.

The shooting of magic beams out of hands is not that far off from what Strange and other sorcerers do, but it is my least preferred way of showing witchcraft and magic. Though I do like the geometrical patterns the sorcerers do. More of that, less of shooty beams. To be fair, every other magic moment Agatha has done so far is much better.

Maybe still not as bad as how Jackson showed the White Council's attack on Dol Guldur. :laugh:

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5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

As I mentioned, it’s like introducing Santa and hoping we’re all fine with his existence cos we probably know all the backstory.

Only if they had Santa as something like this to preserve "realism:"

Although I suppose that would be the Zach Snyder version.

5 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Maybe still not as bad as how Jackson showed the White Council's attack on Dol Guldur. :laugh:

Heh, I almost responded by wondering how exactly you'd like witches to "fight" - and suggesting perhaps something like Gandalf/Saruman in Fellowship.

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