Why wasn't Robb betrothed by the beginning of the story?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

It certainly wasn't for lack of options. There were two incredibly good options in the North. The first was Alys Karstark, who not only came from one of the most powerful bannermen, and one of the few houses with no ties should a Northern civil war erupt, but it also secured Stark rule of the North for a few generations, as the only other House with a claim on the North were the Karstarks.

Alternatively, one of the Manderly girls would also have been a great choice, rewarding one of the most loyal houses in the North, as well as the richest one.

So like, what was Ned waiting for? I understand not marrying Robb, but not even a betrothal? Not even a negotiation? Was he actively trying to weaken his grip on the North?

Of course, the real reason is because the Frey plot needed to happen, but what's the official reason for this?

[eazy]

Simple answer - because George needed him to be available for Frey's betrothal. 

In universe reason - We know that Brandon and Ned also were not betrothed untill relatively old age, maybe it is the Stark way (or the North Way). It is also possible, that Ned being aware Lyanna was not happy with her match chose to wait longer and give Robb a chance to choose a wife for himself. Another possibility is that Ned deep inside wanted Robb to marry Myrcella and was waiting for the right moment to ask Robert about it or wanted Robert to make a first move. 

edit: typo

[Nevets]

Robb's only 14 at the beginning of the story.  For boys, that not all that old for negotiating marriage.  Given his attitude with Sansa, he obviously wasn't in a hurry on the issue in any event. 

I also expect GRRM didn't feel it important either at that point in his writing.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, eazy said:

Simple answer - because George needed him to be available for Frey's betrothal. 

Lol, I just edited that, and when I pressed confirm, this appeared

1 minute ago, eazy said:

It is also possible, that Ned being aware Lyanna was not happy with her chose to wait longer and give Robb a chance to choose a wife for himself.

That would be incredibly stupid and foolish, and Ned might have learned from Lyanna that duty matters more than love, given what she caused.

2 minutes ago, eazy said:

Another possibility is that Ned deep inside wanted Robb to marry Myrcella and was waiting for the right moment to ask Robert about it or wanted Robert to make a first move. 

Myrcella was almost a decade younger than Robb if I remember correctly

[eazy]

2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That would be incredibly stupid and foolish, and Ned might have learned from Lyanna that duty matters more than love, given what she caused.

Well, actually I think that what Ned might have learned from Lyanna is that duty does not matter more than love for everyone. (assuming she went with Rhaegar willingly). I agree this reasoning is stupid and foolish given Ned's position, but Ned is known for for commiting incredibly stupid and foolish deeds because of his lack of understanding of other people; him warning Cersei is the best example. 

8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Myrcella was almost a decade younger than Robb if I remember correctly

That does not stop lords from betrohening (is this even a word? I am not native english speaker) their children in ASOIAF world. Or even marrying them, if we consider Tommen.

I doubt this is what Ned intended, but as we established, main reason was the plot requirement and we try to find an in-world reason and this poped up in my head. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, eazy said:

I doubt this is what Ned intended, but as we established, main reason was the plot requirement and we try to find an in-world reason and this poped up in my head. 

I mean Ned as you said is the type of guy with a way too high moral standard, so I doubt he'd consider something like that. Furthermore his bannermen would be pissed.

- Brandon (and alter Ned) marrying outside the North created a few problems, we know, so Ned doing it with his son would deffo create problems

- Add tot his, his heir being unmarried for at the very least five years (she's eight when the story begins), but more like eight years would just add gasoline to the fire.

So either Ned is incredibly thick even in regards to the North, or this explanation doesn't hold.

[Canon Claude]

32 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It certainly wasn't for lack of options. There were two incredibly good options in the North. The first was Alys Karstark, who not only came from one of the most powerful bannermen, and one of the few houses with no ties should a Northern civil war erupt, but it also secured Stark rule of the North for a few generations, as the only other House with a claim on the North were the Karstarks.

Alternatively, one of the Manderly girls would also have been a great choice, rewarding one of the most loyal houses in the North, as well as the richest one.

So like, what was Ned waiting for? I understand not marrying Robb, but not even a betrothal? Not even a negotiation? Was he actively trying to weaken his grip on the North?

Of course, the real reason is because the Frey plot needed to happen, but what's the official reason for this?

Edmure was still single too, and he’s at least a decade older than Robb. Dickon Tarly was still single too, and he was old enough to fight. Robert Baratheon was nineteen or twenty and he was only betrothed (I can’t remember when he was betrothed though).
 

The simple truth could be that boys don’t get the pressure that girls do in that world. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, Canon Claude said:

Edmure was still single too, and he’s at least a decade older than Robb.

Which honestly never made a lick of sense. There's both Brakens and Blackwoods on offer, the Freys too naturally, as well as the Pipers and the Vances. What exactly is he waiting for, for the market to go dry?

[Angel Eyes]

23 minutes ago, eazy said:

Simple answer - because George needed him to be available for Frey's betrothal. 

In universe reason - We know that Brandon and Ned also were not betrothed untill relatively old age, maybe it is the Stark way (or the North Way). It is also possible, that Ned being aware Lyanna was not happy with her match chose to wait longer and give Robb a chance to choose a wife for himself. Another possibility is that Ned deep inside wanted Robb to marry Myrcella and was waiting for the right moment to ask Robert about it or wanted Robert to make a first move. 

edit: typo

Brandon was betrothed to Catelyn in 276-277 AC since Catelyn mentions she was 12 when she was betrothed, unless GRRM is lying to us about ages. However the betrothal didn’t become public knowledge until 280-282 when Petyr drank himself into a stupor.

[Canon Claude]

5 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Which honestly never made a lick of sense. There's both Brakens and Blackwoods on offer, the Freys too naturally, as well as the Pipers and the Vances. What exactly is he waiting for, for the market to go dry?

He was playing the field. No doubt lots of women were only too happy to indulge the handsome young heir to House Tully. And the big hypocrisy of House Tully is that they never live up to their house motto. Hoster was a douchebag who poisoned his own daughter to kill an unwanted child. Brynden refused to marry and went into self imposed exile for years. Lysa, well, need we say it? Catelyn, for all her flaws, is the only one who actually tries to be a dutiful mother’s and she still can’t bring herself to be a mother figure to a child who isn’t her biological one.

[Angel Eyes]

11 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Which honestly never made a lick of sense. There's both Brakens and Blackwoods on offer, the Freys too naturally, as well as the Pipers and the Vances. What exactly is he waiting for, for the market to go dry?

Especially since Hoster was so marriage/betrothal happy for seven years from 276-283.

[eazy]

12 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean Ned as you said is the type of guy with a way too high moral standard, so I doubt he'd consider something like that. Furthermore his bannermen would be pissed.

- Brandon (and alter Ned) marrying outside the North created a few problems, we know, so Ned doing it with his son would deffo create problems

- Add tot his, his heir being unmarried for at the very least five years (she's eight when the story begins), but more like eight years would just add gasoline to the fire.

So either Ned is incredibly thick even in regards to the North, or this explanation doesn't hold.

He did not hesitate much to betroth Sansa with Joffrey, so I think it is not beyond him to go with Robb - Myrcella match. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, eazy said:

He did not hesitate much to betroth Sansa with Joffrey, so I think it is not beyond him to go with Robb - Myrcella match. 

Daughters and heirs are quite different

[eazy]

10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Brandon was betrothed to Catelyn in 276-277 AC since Catelyn mentions she was 12 when she was betrothed, unless GRRM is lying to us about ages. However the betrothal didn’t become public knowledge until 280-282 when Petyr drank himself into a stupor.

It makes Brandon 14-15 when the betrothal happened, if my math is correct.

[Angel Eyes]

2 minutes ago, eazy said:

It makes Brandon 14-15 when the betrothal happened, if my math is correct.

It would, which makes him around Robb’s age at the beginning of the books.

[eazy]

1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Daughters and heirs are quite different

I agree it is different, but a betrothal of your heir to the royal family is a big honor and would maybe make North a little bit more respected in the realm. Northern lords may not be too happy about it, but given how Ned has a wife from the South himself and she earned their respect, they would probably give Myrcella a shot too. 

I am certain this would be a horrible idea, but I still see it as a possibility. We can agree to disagree on it. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, eazy said:

Northern lords may not be too happy about it, but given how Ned has a wife from the South himself and she earned their respect, they would probably give Myrcella a shot too. 

Here's the thing, thought I think the opposite is true. It took them twenty years to accept Cat, and even then there were some grumblings. Marrying South two generations in a row would royally piss off a lot of Northerners.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Obvious plot reasons. But I think the Lyanna situation is maybe the thing that kept him from making arrangements for his children too early. 

[Loose Bolt]

I suspect that Cat wanted a bride who is both southern and follower of 7 for Robb. Or Cat did not like any northern candidates as next lady of WF and Ned did not cared enough to outrule her opinion. After all Ned allowed building of sept in WF and he even hired a septa.

[Angel Eyes]

48 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing, thought I think the opposite is true. It took them twenty years to accept Cat, and even then there were some grumblings. Marrying South two generations in a row would royally piss off a lot of Northerners.

Well, who's around in the North for Robb to marry? From the top of my head of some of the principal houses:

Alys Karstark: Betrothed to Daryn Hornwood; Rickard Karstark sent Alys to Winterfell years before but for some reason gave up and betrothed her to Daryn instead

Meera Reed: Crannogmen; low on the totem pole

Wynafryd Manderly: Inheritance of White Harbor may be problematic

Wylla Manderly

Eddara Tallhart: Born in 289-290 AC; a contemporary of Arya

House Ryswell: unknown

House Dustin: dead

House Cerwyn: low on the totem pole, Jonelle in her thirties

House Umber: unknown; Greatjon is mentioned to have daughters

House Bolton: no daughters

House Locke: no daughters