Angel Eyes Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 So, please remind me, why did Jaime choose to support his father's lie about Tysha being a whore? Did he fear what Tyrion would do if Tysha wasn't a whore? Did Tywin threaten him? If the latter, what could Tywin do to Jaime, take his hand? His rod and stones? Unleash the Mountain on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: So, please remind me, why did Jaime choose to support his father's lie about Tysha being a whore? Did he fear what Tyrion would do if Tysha wasn't a whore? Did Tywin threaten him? If the latter, what could Tywin do to Jaime, take his hand? His rod and stones? Unleash the Mountain on him? Jaime claims that he didn’t know what Tywin was going to do to Tysha, and that his dad persuaded him that Tyrion was making a really stupid mistake so please lie to him so he’ll back out of this embarrassing marriage. Jaime is apparently horrified when he finds out what his father ended up doing to Tyrion but he was too chickenshit to tell him the truth for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: Jaime claims that he didn’t know what Tywin was going to do to Tysha, and that his dad persuaded him that Tyrion was making a really stupid mistake so please lie to him so he’ll back out of this embarrassing marriage. Jaime is apparently horrified when he finds out what his father ended up doing to Tyrion but he was too chickenshit to tell him the truth for years. Wait a minute. He. Didn’t. Know. This is coming from Tywin Lannister, who had his father’s mistress paraded naked through a city, had a castle collapsed on Ellyn Reyne-Tarbeck’s head, and had Elia Martell raped and brutally murdered. How could Jaime not know what happens to a woman who Tywin Lannister at least feels insulted him, especially the latter. And he was caught off guard by that, he should have been wise to his father’s methods by that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 37 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: Wait a minute. He. Didn’t. Know. This is coming from Tywin Lannister, who had his father’s mistress paraded naked through a city, had a castle collapsed on Ellyn Reyne-Tarbeck’s head, and had Elia Martell raped and brutally murdered. How could Jaime not know what happens to a woman who Tywin Lannister at least feels insulted him, especially the latter. And he was caught off guard by that, he should have been wise to his father’s methods by that point. To be fair, Jaime's not a particularly smart or observant guy. Up until he loses his hand, his head's pretty much stuck up his own ass. Now imagine him as a teenage boy being told what to do by his father. This is the same teenager who stabbed his king to death because he ordered Jaime to kill his dad (other reasons too, yes, but still). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Jaime is morally a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 hours ago, saltedmalted said: Jaime is morally a coward. Killing Aerys was the most morally brave in the story, either that or Ned telling Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: Killing Aerys was the most morally brave in the story The earlier it had been done the morally braver it would have appeared. And, as it was done the very last moment possible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, broken one said: The earlier it had been done the morally braver it would have appeared. And, as it was done the very last moment possible ... Yes, but would anyone else in the story have done it? Certainly some, Jon definitely, Mance, Davos, and then a bunch of other people would have done it for selfish reasons (the Bronns, Kettleblacks and such) which would still be morally okay, as it would be an act of self defense. But there would be many morally cowards who would merely 'follow orders' and commit atrocious acts. Like Barristan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 12 hours ago, James Steller said: Now imagine him as a teenage boy being told what to do by his father. Jaime was young when the Tysha grossness happened, but he wasn't a teenager. He was 20 years old. I don't know why Jaime never told Tyrion. I could see it as being a way of trying to protect his brother. If Tyrion had found out at the age of 13 that Tysha wasn't a prostitute who married him for his money, then he might have gone after her and tried to find her which meant that the consequences would have been far worse for her and Tyrion. But then, Jaime seems to have chucked his conscience into the nearest bin after the events that surround the Sack of King's Landing and found it again after his hand was cut off. One of my favorite pieces of writing with Jaime is his confrontation with Tywin after he comes back to King's Landing. On some level, it felt like a moment of catharsis where he is telling his father no for everything past, present and future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Tywin told him to do so. Simple as that and Jaime was in his prime as a warrior and he was a Kingsguard, so not really a Lannister anymore in paper. I doubt he was threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 23 minutes ago, frenin said: Tywin told him to do so. Simple as that and Jaime was in his prime as a warrior and he was a Kingsguard, so not really a Lannister anymore in paper. I doubt he was threatened. Tywin didn't need to threaten Jaime. He grew up around Tywin. He didn't have to be a genius to know that bad things happen to the people who defy Tywin. If there was any doubt, what happened to Tyrion's would've confirmed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Just curious but how old was Jamie at the time of this event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lion of the West said: Just curious but how old was Jamie at the time of this event? About 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 6:17 PM, Lord Lannister said: Tywin didn't need to threaten Jaime. He grew up around Tywin. He didn't have to be a genius to know that bad things happen to the people who defy Tywin. If there was any doubt, what happened to Tyrion's would've confirmed that. Jaime was Tywin's golden boy, he would've allowed Tyrion's marriage to come forward before harming him. And how could he intimidate Jaime anyway?? Ordering Gregor to pull an Elia on Cersei?? Murder his King and framing Jaime?? Jaime was hated throughout the Realm, he was a Kingsguard so he couldn't renounce to anything else and his only real link was his family... Tywin's blood. There wasn't much Jaime had left to lose. It's obvious that he was not threatened or coerced into lying. On 2/11/2021 at 6:20 PM, Lion of the West said: Just curious but how old was Jamie at the time of this event? 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foot_Of_The_King Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 15 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said: One of my favorite pieces of writing with Jaime is his confrontation with Tywin after he comes back to King's Landing. On some level, it felt like a moment of catharsis where he is telling his father no for everything past, present and future. One of my favorite parts as well. The “No, no, no!!!” Is such an awesome moment. It’s seeing his personal changes from his journey come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 6:50 PM, CamiloRP said: Killing Aerys was the most morally brave in the story 1) Tywin Lannister's men were inside the walls. 2) Aerys had just ordered him to kill his father. People have good reason to despise Jaime Lannister. The whole "saving KL" thing appears so convenient. Like the line in the show went, "He served when serving was easy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, saltedmalted said: 1) Tywin Lannister's men were inside the walls. Yes, and because the city was lost, Aerys ordered to burn the entire city down. Quote 2) Aerys had just ordered him to kill his father. People have good reason to despire Jaime Lannister. The whole "saving KL" thing appears so convenient. Like the line in the show went, "He served when serving was easy". Now, in our world this wouldn't have been such a morally brave act, it's an obvious solution. Also, Jaime would've died if Aerys's plan came to fruition. But, in Westeros honor is regarded as more important than your own life, and doing thins, soiled his honor completely, so it was an actually hard choice for someone who cared about his honor, and before this event, Jaime really did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: Now, in our world this wouldn't have been such a morally brave act, it's an obvious solution. Also, Jaime would've died if Aerys's plan came to fruition. But, in Westeros honor is regarded as more important than your own life, and doing thins, soiled his honor completely, so it was an actually hard choice for someone who cared about his honor, and before this event, Jaime really did. It should be an obvious solution even if there wasn't wildfire in the story; Jaime was told to kill his father. Kingslayer or kinslayer over which is the bigger sin, take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said: It should be an obvious solution even if there wasn't wildfire in the story; Jaime was told to kill his father. Kingslayer or kinslayer over which is the bigger sin, take your pick. Yes, that too, in our world, but it could be argued that in Westeros Jaime's duty was to kill Tywin, not that it would be right, or that everyone would agree, but I think a big part of Westeros would think the KG vows made him no longer kin to Tywin and the wishes of the king came before anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksnider05 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 The fact that Jaime didn't tell anyone about the aging magical explosives all over the city make even his one moment of doing something good sketchy at best. He has left a sword hanging over that city that a hungry rat could set off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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