Why did Jaime lie about Tysha?

[Bernie Mac]

On 2/11/2021 at 2:38 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Wait a minute. He. Didn’t. Know. This is coming from Tywin Lannister, who had his father’s mistress paraded naked through a city,

Do people in Westeros think this is  a bad thing? Or do they think that an appropriate punishment for a woman who stole from a Lord's dead wife?

As so often happens in these kind of discussions, you are conflating your opinion or even a modern opinion of Tywin's actions with the opinion of people in the medieval world.

On 2/11/2021 at 2:38 AM, Angel Eyes said:

 

 

had a castle collapsed on Ellyn Reyne-Tarbeck’s head,

Something that songs are literally sang about in celebration. People in Westeros do not see the Reynes of Castamere tale as a negative for Tywin, but a positive.

On 2/11/2021 at 2:38 AM, Angel Eyes said:

 

and had Elia Martell raped and brutally murdered.

Well no, he did not according to Tywin himself. People who hate him may believe he did that, many people who are neutral may believe he did that. His own son is more than likely going to take his word on the matter.

On 2/11/2021 at 2:38 AM, Angel Eyes said:

 

How could Jaime not know what happens to a woman who Tywin Lannister at least feels insulted him, especially the latter. And he was caught off guard by that, he should have been wise to his father’s methods by that point.

When did Tywin feel insulted by Tysha? Tyrion was the one who fucked up, Tysha was insignificant to Tywin. He could not even remember her name when Tyrion brought her up.

[saltedmalted]

11 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

His own son is more than likely going to take his word on the matter.

Why? He knows how brutal a man his father is. 

11 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Tysha was insignificant to Tywin.

He had her gangraped by his guards, then made his son do the same. 

Quote

Or do they think that an appropriate punishment for a woman who stole from a Lord's dead wife?

She wasn't stealing anything. Tytos Lannister let her do as she pleased, and that includes letting her wear expensive jewels.

[frenin]

On 2/13/2021 at 9:05 AM, Bernie Mac said:

Something that songs are literally sang about in celebration.

Songs ordered by Tywin or made to flatter Tywin and the Lannisters, i very much doubt that's a good bar.  That bards making flattering songs about the victors and the new guys in power is nothing new.

 

On 2/13/2021 at 9:05 AM, Bernie Mac said:

People in Westeros do not see the Reynes of Castamere tale as a negative for Tywin, but a positive.

We are not told either way.  Especially because those who can't shut up about the Reynes tend to be Lannister. We do not have many, if any, opinions of the matter from the people of Westeros.

 

Quote

Though the brutality of his methods drew censure from some, none could dispute that Ser Tywin restored order to the westerlands after the chaos and conflict of his father’s rule.

And this is coming from a very pro Lannister source. 

[Angel Eyes]

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Do people in Westeros think this is  a bad thing? Or do they think that an appropriate punishment for a woman who stole from a Lord's dead wife?

As so often happens in these kind of discussions, you are conflating your opinion or even a modern opinion of Tywin's actions with the opinion of people in the medieval world.

Something that songs are literally sang about in celebration. People in Westeros do not see the Reynes of Castamere tale as a negative for Tywin, but a positive.

Well no, he did not according to Tywin himself. People who hate him may believe he did that, many people who are neutral may believe he did that. His own son is more than likely going to take his word on the matter.

When did Tywin feel insulted by Tysha? Tyrion was the one who fucked up, Tysha was insignificant to Tywin. He could not even remember her name when Tyrion brought her up.

That's not the point I was trying to make; the point was that Jaime said he didn't know what Tywin was going to do to Tysha and I say that's impossible because Tywin is known to be responsible for a number of harsh actions. In Jaime's case he believed that Tywin wouldn't hurt Rhaenys, Aegon, and Elia. If he didn't know then, he definitely would have known three years later with what Tywin would do to Tysha.

[Minsc]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:20 AM, CamiloRP said:

Killing Aerys was the most morally brave in the story, either that or Ned telling Cersei.

The alternative was Jaime (and his family/friends) dying in a firey blast.  It isn't that morally brave literally anyone else would have tried to stop it.

[Angel Eyes]

8 minutes ago, Minsc said:

The alternative was Jaime (and his family/friends) dying in a firey blast.  It isn't that morally brave literally anyone else would have tried to stop it.

What friends?

[saltedmalted]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

What friends?

The ones who were busy murdering the people of KL. You know, his father's men.

[Angel Eyes]

35 minutes ago, saltedmalted said:

The ones who were busy murdering the people of KL. You know, his father's men.

Never really thought of them as friends.

[CamiloRP]

10 hours ago, Minsc said:

The alternative was Jaime (and his family/friends) dying in a firey blast.  It isn't that morally brave literally anyone else would have tried to stop it.

Yes, I clarified that too. But so don't think anyone would be made the same choice. Westerosi society puts a large stock in honor, and young Jaime did too. Many would've followed Aerys's command. The alchemists did, and they would've died in the inferno too.

[saltedmalted]

58 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Many would've followed Aerys's command.

Not if they could save their own lives. 

Remember that Westerlanders were already inside the walls. He wasn't going to be sentenced to death once he killed Aerys.

[Minsc]

9 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Never really thought of them as friends.

Jaime seems friendly with the other Westerland Lords and likely squired with some. So he likely had some friends.

1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Yes, I clarified that too. But so don't think anyone would be made the same choice. Westerosi society puts a large stock in honor, and young Jaime did too. Many would've followed Aerys's command. The alchemists did, and they would've died in the inferno too.

Doubt it, most would recognize what Aerys was doing was wrong and not want to die. The alchemists seems like pyromanics like Aerys so they likely just wanted to see shit burn.

[saltedmalted]

14 minutes ago, Minsc said:

The alchemists seems like pyromanics like Aerys so they likely just wanted to see shit burn.

Most alchemists wouldn't have been fond of burning. They had put caches of wildfire around the city but I doubt they expected to stay in KL when it went off.

 

[frenin]

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Many would've followed Aerys's command.

Only a lunatic would have followed Aerys's command. Westerosi care about honor but certainly it only goes so far.

[CamiloRP]

6 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Not if they could save their own lives. 

Remember that Westerlanders were already inside the walls. He wasn't going to be sentenced to death once he killed Aerys.

The alchemists did, and they weren't even honorbound.

[CamiloRP]

51 minutes ago, frenin said:

Only a lunatic would have followed Aerys's command. Westerosi care about honor but certainly it only goes so far.

Then why was Jaime the only one who did anything? I mean, there wasn't even a GC trying to kill Aerys's to get a reward from Robert.

 

5 hours ago, Minsc said:

Doubt it, most would recognize what Aerys was doing was wrong and not want to die. The alchemists seems like pyromanics like Aerys so they likely just wanted to see shit burn.

They would burn too tho.

 

[Angel Eyes]

On 2/11/2021 at 11:15 AM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Jaime was young when the Tysha grossness happened, but he wasn't a teenager. He was 20 years old. 

I don't know why Jaime never told Tyrion. I could see it as being a way of trying to protect his brother. If Tyrion had found out at the age of 13 that Tysha wasn't a prostitute who married him for his money, then he might have gone after her and tried to find her which meant that the consequences would have been far worse for her and Tyrion. 

 

I thought it was about protecting Tywin from Tyrion; once Tyrion learned the truth about Tysha it took him hours at most to kill Tywin.

[saltedmalted]

7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought it was about protecting Tywin from Tyrion; once Tyrion learned the truth about Tysha it took him hours at most to kill Tywin.

The Lord of Casterly Rock needed protection from a dwarf? The Imp couldn't have escaped without Varys. 

Who was going to save him in the Westerlands?

Jaime lied because he was a coward, or he simply didn't care about the Imp and the crofter's daughter.

[Darksnider05]

7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought it was about protecting Tywin from Tyrion; once Tyrion learned the truth about Tysha it took him hours at most to kill Tywin.

It was for sure not that.

17 minutes ago, saltedmalted said:

The Lord of Casterly Rock needed protection from a dwarf? The Imp couldn't have escaped without Varys. 

Who was going to save him in the Westerlands?

Jaime lied because he was a coward, or he simply didn't care about the Imp and the crofter's daughter.

Yep Jaime being a coward is kind of a major part of his character he's caused so many deaths and done so much damage to Westeros it's kind of like he's trying to make up for saving King's Landing.

[sifth]

16 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Then why was Jaime the only one who did anything? I mean, there wasn't even a GC trying to kill Aerys's to get a reward from Robert.

 

They would burn too tho.

 

You make a good point, when you bring up the Kings Guard. A lot of those guys seem to be brainwashed by honor. Look how nearly all of them beat Sansa, without even caring, when Joff ordered them to do it. I know Ser Ares Oakheart protested, but even he in the end still hit her, all be it lightly than the others.

Also I love Ser Barry, more than most characters in the series, but even he seems a lot like a honor bound robot, before becoming a POV character. I hate to say it, but your right, he probably would have let the city burn, probably most members of the Kings Guard would.

That being said, Jaime killing Aerys is still very much Jamie just saving his own ass. If he really cared about the greater good, he'd explain to Ned about the wildfire and help him dismantle the stuff.

[CamiloRP]

8 hours ago, sifth said:

You make a good point, when you bring up the Kings Guard. A lot of those guys seem to be brainwashed by honor. Look how nearly all of them beat Sansa, without even caring, when Joff ordered them to do it. I know Ser Ares Oakheart protested, but even he in the end still hit her, all be it lightly than the others.

Also I love Ser Barry, more than most characters in the series, but even he seems a lot like a honor bound robot, before becoming a POV character. I hate to say it, but your right, he probably would have let the city burn, probably most members of the Kings Guard would.

That being said, Jaime killing Aerys is still very much Jamie just saving his own ass. If he really cared about the greater good, he'd explain to Ned about the wildfire and help him dismantle the stuff.

Yeah, maybe. I don't think he's aware of the treat? I mean, he continued living in KL for a long time.