More Dragon Casting Announced

[Lord Varys]

Overall, with GoT not being exactly faithful with family trees and stuff, there is no reason to be confident we are going to get all the people in HoD that exist in the books - or if we get them, that they are related to each other exactly in the same as they are in the books.

And to be sure - the Strong plot isn't exactly all that great. It is basically rehash of the Cersei story. If they were to drop that in favor of a more complex story I'd certainly not complain.

They could also merge Criston Cole and Harwin Strong, making the former the father of some of Rhaenyra's children, and make their falling-out about her finally marrying Daemon - who Rhaenyra always loved more than Criston, or something along those lines.

[Daeron the Daring]

2 hours ago, Mithras said:

I mean, just look at the casting choices they are making on the side of the "blacks". I say the die has been cast on this one. Blacks are the Democrats, which makes the Greens Republicans. Of course the Blacks will fight for women rights; of course the Blacks will promote racial diversity; and in the process, of course the Blacks will be whitewashed from doing ugly stuff, like adultery or the Blood&Cheese thing.

Actually, I would applaud all this farce if they were sincere in their agenda. If they truly mean it, I expect them to change the winner in the end as well and let a girl and/or a non-white half-Targaryen climb to the Iron Throne.

Few months ago I never tought this will end up this way. Sadly, it seems like it will, and they might even change the ending, so that it would be even more PC.

[Shatiel]

16 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm not sure the relevance of it, since the Velaryons are not Pentoshi but of a "storied" Valyrian line and are described as being similar to the Targaryens in appearance. HBO has chosen to change it, seemingly... Or maybe not -- maybe, as in theatrical productions, it's just color-blind casting entirely where a performer's race is not necessarily the same as their character's race (as in Hamilton.) Or, to take a recent TV example, The Great where actors of Indian, African, and Asian origin all played historical Russian figures.

We'll know more eventually. Honestly, the age thing caught my attention more. I feel like having Corlys a lot more aged than the others would have a useful effect on screen. And given their obvious casting preference, my dream of seeing Clarke Peters in the GoT franchise could at last have been realized.

Haven´t seen the Great yet - but do they feature real color-blind-casting such as in the recent David Copperfield movie or Hollow Crown, where poc characters did have non-poc children (so it was entirely colourblind)? I´m not quite sure if what worked on a film version of Plays or in  David Coperfield (at least for the critics, I think the audience didn´t take that version so well) will work with House of the Dragon.

So I´m pretty sure they will have to either cast a lot of more poc (Harwin Strong, Lucerys, Jacerys, Joffrey, Laenor, Laena, Baela, Rhaena, Addam und Alys) if they wanna avoid "whitewashing"-tweets of people who do not understand the meaning of colourblind casting (the best Actor gets the role, no matter the looks. See for instance Les mis 25th aniversary with the Great philippina Lea Salonga as Fantine und blonde Katie Bell as her daughter Cosette). Or they will have to skip a few characters - I can imagine that they will for instance leave out Rhaena, because her name is too similar to Rhaenyra and Rhaenys. 

I´m also more confused with the age of Corlys and the nonexisting age gap between Corlys and Rhaenys to be honest. 

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd expect that the ASoIaF history of House Velaryon - which is never mentioned in GoT at all - is not likely to be included in HoD.

They are more likely to go with Corlys Velaryon as a selfmade man - great seafarer and explorer who made a fortune for himself to the point where he could woo a royal princess and dream about being the future king consort of Westeros - who has no previous relation to the Targaryens at all.

But even if they stuck with the Velaryon backstory up to Corlys - it would be a significant worldbuilding change because the Velaryons are pretty much as famed for their Valyrian lineage and looks as the Targaryens themselves. Monford Velaryon and Aurane Waters still look very Valyrian even centuries after they left Valyria.

I'd have preferred it if they had done something like that with the Strongs, Criston Cole, or some other character where the family history is not so much a crucial worldbuilding detail.

Reinventing Mysaria as an Asian woman is no big deal. She doesn't have to be from Lys or could wear a wig. The important part about her role is that she is an ambitious prostitute and concubine with a cruel streak, not so much her ethnicity.

Well, i quite think they will have to make one Strong black (if they don´t wanna leave out the Strong-kids). But watching the picture of Toussaint I really think he would be a good Criston Cole. And I would have liked him better als Criston than as Corlys, because for Corlys he is to young. 

 

[Bael's Bastard]

34 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Few months ago I never tought this will end up this way. Sadly, it seems like it will, and they might even change the ending, so that it would be even more PC.

Lmao, such an overreaction to a Black guy being cast as a Velaryon. Don't you have something better to do than be upset about a fictional character's skin color being darkened for a TV show?

[Daeron the Daring]

3 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Lmao, such an overreaction to a Black guy being cast as a Velaryon

Thia wasn't my reaction of a black guy playing Corlys. This was my reaction to how the entire show will probably end up being an inaccurate shit, for the sake of politics. It might be that all this is unintentional, but it's not that likely. 

5 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Don't you have something better to do than be upset about a fictional character's skin color being darkened for a TV show?

I do mind my own business, you do yours. Btw, I'm currently sitting on a train, going home, alone. I find this period of my day the most fitting to post on this forum.

[Ran]

46 minutes ago, Shatiel said:

Haven´t seen the Great yet - but do they feature real color-blind-casting such as in the recent David Copperfield movie or Hollow Crown, where poc characters did have non-poc children (so it was entirely colourblind)?

My recollection is that the answer is yes, re: The Great, though I think there was only one family who was shown with children in that series.

 

[The Dragon Demands]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 

But what Ran mentioned about the actor not being that old also could be somewhat of an issue. Corlys Velaryon is a very old man during the Dance - and even in the 100s he is massively older than his wife, being two years older than Rhaenys' father, Prince Aemon, and that is also be a somewhat crucial feature of his character.

ASoIaF is notorious for having mostly young and, at best, middle-aged characters, anyway.

....we also have to deal with the confusion over Steve Toussaint being cast after rumors of Danny Sapani, to the point that IMDB listed Sapani.

....no, Toussaint is 55, Sapani is 50. They couldn't be playing him at different ages, could they?

[The Dragon Demands]

7 hours ago, Mithras said:

I mean, just look at the casting choices they are making on the side of the "blacks". I say the die has been cast on this one. Blacks are the Democrats, which makes the Greens Republicans. Of course the Blacks will fight for women rights; of course the Blacks will promote racial diversity; and in the process, of course the Blacks will be whitewashed from doing ugly stuff, like adultery or the Blood&Cheese thing.

Actually, I would applaud all this farce if they were sincere in their agenda. If they truly mean it, I expect them to change the winner in the end as well and let a girl and/or a non-white half-Targaryen climb to the Iron Throne.

Ser, the Greens are the party of the rich coastal elites. The party of the cities.

They control King's Landing, Oldtown, and Lannisport, most of the wealth and most of the population, out of total disproportion to the land area they control.

[The Dragon Demands]

9 hours ago, Mithras said:

 

It looks like they will be dropping everything about the Strong bastards. 

Strong bastards?.....What....."Strong bastards"?

You mean Rhaenyra's legitimate sons with Laenor?

[SpaceChampion]

The Velaryons don't need to have ever ridden dragons.  It is essentially a minor House that attached themselves to the Targaryens for protection.  It's quite possible they were rich and powerful sea traders, and the only thing that kept them from rising higher in Valyria is lack of dragons.  Dragons overturn the natural power dynamics that being rich would have brought them.  And the richer they were, the more they'd need protection from other Valyrian houses.  But dragons don't account for all Valyria's power -- it must have needed military, merchant, agricultural, technological and religious power too, and the structure of their society would naturally raise up minor houses that specialized in those.

Post-Doom might have been when the Velaryons started intermarrying with the Targs, or having their bastards.  I doubt before that.  Those Velaryons could have Targ looks in shape of face perhaps, without skin, eye and hair traits disappearing.

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

There is nothing wrong with color blind casting. The Great was mentioned up thread. They can just cast the Strongs as redheads. 

[Sotan]

I like the casting so far, Eve Best is a badass and I can see her killing it; same with Rhys Ifans he disappears into every role he's in. I've yet to see anything Toussaint is in, but I like the direction they are going with the Velaryons, and Mizuno is an inspired choice for Mysaria. 

I don't remember much from F&B tbh, but Mysaria was master of whispers to Rhaenyra right? With Mizuno's casting it seems like for now all the POC main characters are on Rhaenyra's side, especially if they cast her sons with Laenor with biracial actors. 

[DisneyDoc2425]

55 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I don't remember much from F&B tbh, but Mysaria was master of whispers to Rhaenyra right? With Mizuno's casting it seems like for now all the POC main characters are on Rhaenyra's side, especially if they cast her sons with Laenor with biracial actors. 

Myseria was a prominent paramour of Daemon Targaryen. She became an unofficial mistress of whisperers to Rhaenyra but did not attend council meetings. She was cunning, devious, and ruthless. She died a chilling death in KL after Rhaenyra fled back to Dragonstone at the end of the Dance. 

[Sotan]

3 minutes ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

Myseria was a prominent paramour of Daemon Targaryen. She became an unofficial mistress of whisperers to Rhaenyra but did not attend council meetings. She was cunning, devious, and ruthless. She died a chilling death in KL after Rhaenyra fled back to Dragonstone at the end of the Dance. 

thanks for reminding me. I have a horrible memory lol. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

Corlys' actor is in 50s; he's really not that young. If they can make Alicent's 27-year-old actress look way older over the course of the series (which I'm guessing they will, unless they recast her), then they can make him look older each season, too.

If this show lasts five seasons (which, if I remember correctly, was the original plan), then we might not meet the Strongs until the second season, especially if they decide to have Rhaenyra and Criston be lovers in this version at the start. Lyonel was Otto's successor, so it would make sense for him to be introduced a bit later on. I certainly hope they don't merge Criston and Harwin's characters, since Criston would have to be cartoonishly evil in order to try to wage war against his own sons.

Assuming they don't drastically change the Strong bastards plot, does this mean that the paternity of Rhaenyra's sons is going to come under question because they're. . . too pale? Maybe Harwin will be a ginger in the show, and all of the kids will have red hair. That could work.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Corlys' actor is in 50s; he's really not that young. If they can make Alicent's 27-year-old actress look way older over the course of the series (which I'm guessing they will, unless they recast her), then they can make him look older each season, too.

Yes, if the show starts in the early 100s or thereabouts then the age sort of fits. I just got confused that Otto Hightower's actor seemed to be of the same age - and he must be younger than Corlys in the books.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

If this show lasts five seasons (which, if I remember correctly, was the original plan), then we might not meet the Strongs until the second season, especially if they decide to have Rhaenyra and Criston be lovers in this version at the start. Lyonel was Otto's successor, so it would make sense for him to be introduced a bit later on. I certainly hope they don't merge Criston and Harwin's characters, since Criston would have to be cartoonishly evil in order to try to wage war against his own sons.

I'm not sure there is a plan about the number of seasons. But if they stick to the material then Lyonel Strong and his sons join the court shortly after Viserys I takes the Iron Throne. He first serves as Master of Laws before the king names him Hand. And Harwin (and possibly Larys, too, although we only know that he joined the king's confessors) is heavily involved in court intrigue - courting Rhaenyra, and being the most likely candidate for Viserys I's source about Daemon's 'heir for a day' line.

A proper adaptation should thus have the Strongs from the start and focus on their advancement at court.

As for Criston and Harwin merging - one way to do that would to make Rhaenyra's sons Laenor's and Criston just telling Alicent that he was their true father. But if you think about Jaime then a self-involved man can easily ignore or act against the best interests of his own children - especially if he isn't close to them. Which would also be the case for Criston Cole in such a scenario.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Assuming they don't drastically change the Strong bastards plot, does this mean that the paternity of Rhaenyra's sons is going to come under question because they're. . . too pale? Maybe Harwin will be a ginger in the show, and all of the kids will have red hair. That could work.

For that to speculate we would first have to know that Laenor and Laena will be in the show ... and who is going to play them.

[Sotan]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

As for Criston and Harwin merging - one way to do that would to make Rhaenyra's sons Laenor's and Criston just telling Alicent that he was their true father. 

As for Criston and Harwin merging - one way to do that would to make Rhaenyra's sons Laenor's and Criston just telling Alicent that he was their true father. 

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Sotan said:

As for Criston and Harwin merging - one way to do that would to make Rhaenyra's sons Laenor's and Criston just telling Alicent that he was their true father. 

Yes, that's the idea.

But again - Jaime is also completely detached from his children and prepared to destroy them now that he has fallen out with Cersei. He wants to reveal the truth about their parentage, meaning their identity, status, and role in life would be destroyed ... and they might very well be (eventually) killed. Their lives would be definitely in danger.

Even before that he intended to marry Cersei which would also have greatly endangered the lives of their children.

If we imagine Criston Cole as a man determined to do everything in his power - everything it takes - to destroy Rhaenyra Targaryen then this could also involve the lives of his own children ... especially if he felt Rhaenyra stole those children from him, preventing to him to be a proper father to them. That is the same explanation/excuse Jaime uses to explain why he doesn't really care about his own children.

Also, one has to keep in mind that Cole is not directly involved in the murder of any of Rhaenyra's sons - Luke is murdered by Aemond at Storm's End, Jace dies with his dragon in the Battle of the Gullet, and Joffrey is thrown off Syrax's back during the Storming of the Dragonpit.

Thus Cole could work to destroy and even kill Rhaenyra without specifically targeting her sons ... or at least mainly focusing on that goal without stepping in to prevent the other Greens from targeting the children.

But even book Cole's single ploy to possibly murder the children - the Cargyll plot - could easily be depicted in the show as a ploy to murder Rhaenyra - because we get two versions of the goal of that plot. One to murder the children as payback for Blood and Cheese, and another to murder Rhaenyra herself.

And back to the Strongs - of course they could only be introduced in season 2, despite that being a break with the source material. But I'd really not like that since the court intrigues of the Strongs could and should be a side plot from the start.

The show should set them up as a powerful faction of their own and it should come as a huge surprise that Lyonel and Harwin eventually die, and Larys ends up playing both sides in the Dance.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

NGL, I am not going to watch this show, with all this woke stuff for the sake of appeasing part of their audience.

This Corlys Velaryon actor will cause a massive plot hole in the story, but I guess they don't care right, so many plot holes in Game of Thrones too.

I just wish GRRM had never given all those rights to HBO.

[Daeron the Daring]

1 hour ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

NGL, I am not going to watch this show, with all this woke stuff for the sake of appeasing part of their audience.

This Corlys Velaryon actor will cause a massive plot hole in the story, but I guess they don't care right, so many plot holes in Game of Thrones too.

I just wish GRRM had never given all those rights to HBO.

Imagine what will people think when they'll find out that Corlys was supposed to be valyrian looking, and the showrunners made him a black character so they'll be PC enough.