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More Dragon Casting Announced

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2021 at 11:58 AM, The Grey Wolf said:

No violence against women?! What happened to Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, Baela, Mysaria, Sharis Footly, the Westerlands women attacked by Ironborn, the women of Tumbleton, etc.?

The point Olivia Cooke was trying to make was regarding sexual violence against women, not physical. 

If we'll get an accurate adaptation, sexual violence will be much less in HotD than it was in GoT, but will still be an observable thing, but by far not as much as GoT pushed this.

These characters were never raped or something like that, but simply died or went trough something really destructive in a phisical way (I mean death, or not, when it comes to Baela). That is violence towards humans, because the gender of the witnesses changed nothing in how it happened and why.

I mean, Aegon II would've fed a brother usurper/rival too to his dragon, he wasn't even riding Sunfyre when Baela fought against the dragon in thr back of her own one. Nor did Rhaenys die for being a woman, but for fighting on dragonback.

Mysaria also died for her own acts, altough there is a sexualization in her punishment. Sharis Footly has of course an unfortunate but regular occasion during war.

Edited by Daeron the Daring

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18 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

They could also keep the conflicting sources stuff by giving us different versions of certain events - and that could be fun and would make it a very experimental, courageous show - but I'm not very confident that they will do that.

The only somewhat similar way they can go with is not showing us several important things that might or might not have happened. Showing different versions of events is just a big no.

What I mean is that we won't see who exactly paid Ser Qarl to kill Laenor (if it happened that way, of course), but we'll know he was paid for doing it. Or not even that, but that he somegow got money afterwards to escape, or simply vanish. Showing different scenarios where different people pay him is just meh.

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1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The only somewhat similar way they can go with is not showing us several important things that might or might not have happened. Showing different versions of events is just a big no.

What I mean is that we won't see who exactly paid Ser Qarl to kill Laenor (if it happened that way, of course), but we'll know he was paid for doing it. Or not even that, but that he somegow got money afterwards to escape, or simply vanish. Showing different scenarios where different people pay him is just meh.

Oh, well, the idea I was tossing around is that the entire show could be conceived as Archmaester Gyldayn telling the story. So, for the most time we would hear his narrator voice bridging scenes and giving introductions to characters and events. We would see mostly scenes that are considered to be well-attested historical knowledge. But when we come to Lyman Beesbury's death, Aegon II's whereabouts when his father died, etc. we would hear Gyldayn talk about the conflicting sources and then the show would give us scenes covering the conflicting accounts.

That would certainly be doable ... but it is not very likely that they take such an approach.

But that means that a lot of the material George wrote is going to be discarded. We will get only one 'true version' of events, not multiple conflicting accounts. And quite a few paragraphs in the Dance history cover conflicting accounts.

But, of course, to make this a tantalizing story we are going to need a lot of invented scenes, a lot of character building, etc.

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Posted (edited)

I am disgusted by the euphemisms the media uses to dance around the real question:  why did Benioff and Weiss throw out Sansa’s book storyline and throw her into an unrelated rape storyline?

They never attempted an explanation, in fact they just avoided interviews for a full year and skipped Comic-Con.

Even then, no one was willing to admit the emperor was naked:  meekly asked in euphemisms about “violence against women”....and not “dude, why did you invent a rape for Sansa, detailing her entire story arc?”

sooner or later...on a scale of years...the cast and crew on the spin-offs will be confronted when questions about all the bizarre things in the first series.  On a global scale.  Someone will ask. 

I regret that someone asked this actor though - the actors don’t make writing decisions. I’d have never asked Olivia Cooke this question.


Of course, I think the “elephant in the room” they’ll be confronted with first are all the things from Season 8.  EVERY TIME we try to poll lists of “most asked questions about House of the Dragon” - on YouTube, screen rant, Reddit - the vast majority just keep submitting questions about Season 8!”  I try to steer such open Q&A towards things like “how will they handle time skips?”, but it just gets drowned out with “why should we care after how bad Game of Thrones ended?”—-journalistic standards really declined.  Not just fan questions but even op Ed’s on screen rant listing “top questions about House of the Dragon” were just about Game of Thrones.

 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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Posted (edited)

This House of the Dragon, does it start with the Conquest or will it cover the reign of Viserys I Targaryen and the Dance?

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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On 3/14/2021 at 11:09 AM, Daeron the Daring said:

I mean, Aegon II would've fed a brother usurper/rival too to his dragon, he wasn't even riding Sunfyre when Baela fought against the dragon in thr back of her own one. Nor did Rhaenys die for being a woman, but for fighting on dragonback.

 

Daeron, this is incorrect. In Fire and Blood, which I've read half a hundred times, it says that Aegon II jumped from Sunfyre 20 feet above the ground, while Lady Baela stayed with Moondancer the whole way down.

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On 3/13/2021 at 2:52 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Blood raped six year old Jaehaera in front of her mother.

Incorrect. Blood threatened to do so if Helaena didn't pick soon. 

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Nothing bad really happened to Baela. Sure she got chained and stuff, but so did Prince Aegon the Younger.

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6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

This House of the Dragon, does it start with the Conquest or will it cover the reign of Viserys I Targaryen and the Dance?

It seems it is going to start early in the reign of Viserys I, at a time when Rhaenyra Targaryen is not yet her father's heir (which only happens in 105 AC), when Criston Cole is not yet a knight of the Kingsguard nor Rhaenyra's sworn shield, and when Alicent Hightower is not yet queen.

It might be they also cover the Great Council of 101 AC - something many people seem to want and think would be a great idea - but so far there is no indication that they will do this since there are no reports about Jaehaerys I being cast.

As for Princess Rhaenys - I think George completely wasted that character, both in the Dance as well as in the FaB chapters covering the reigns of Jaehaerys I and Viserys. She should have a greater role in the show, starting with the Stepstones war (where she could fight on Meleys at Daemon's side), and then they could even reverse things and kill Corlys early on during the war and make Rhaenys the old wise person who later pushes folks towards, etc.

Throwing her away like George did in the first proper Dance dragon battle is just not very pleasant.

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11 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Daeron, this is incorrect. In Fire and Blood, which I've read half a hundred times, it says that Aegon II jumped from Sunfyre 20 feet above the ground, while Lady Baela stayed with Moondancer the whole way down.

Yea, my bad, I tought Sunfyre fought Moondancer riderless, and Aegon was still crippled by his previous fight and fall. Still, that doesn't make the action violence towards women.

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8 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Yea, my bad, I tought Sunfyre fought Moondancer riderless, and Aegon was still crippled by his previous fight and fall. Still, that doesn't make the action violence towards women.

It's fine :) . 

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13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

and then they could even reverse things and kill Corlys early on during the war

If they do this, they'll have to come up with a way to end the Dance and poison Aegon II. Corlys played a large part in ending the Dance and throughout the Dance itself. Rhaenyra's imprisonment of Corlys lost her the ships and swords of House Velaryon. 

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4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

If they do this, they'll have to come up with a way to end the Dance and poison Aegon II. Corlys played a large part in ending the Dance and throughout the Dance itself. Rhaenyra's imprisonment of Corlys lost her the ships and swords of House Velaryon. 

Well, the idea would be that Rhaenys would then be the woman who arranged the murder of Aegon II.

But it doesn't have to come to this - moving around things so Rhaenys sticks around longer could also work. I just find it not that great that as experienced and potential interesting and nuanced a character as Rhaenys basically dies shortly after her first proper appearance in the Dance story. During the reign of Viserys I she doesn't do anything of note, either.

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Posted (edited)

Switching the order of the deaths of Corlys and Rhaenyra would make it hard to explain the legitimization of Adam and Alyn. I would prefer it if they left it as it is (although obviously they should expand her character and give her something to do in the first season, so that her death has some impact when it happens)

And as I see it, The Dance of Dragons is not a story that is in need of adding strong female characters with agency. The conflict itself can be reduced to a conflict between Rhaenyra and Alicent (the Princess and the Queen), and there are other female characters that can easily become fan favorites if they are properly fleshed out, such as Mysaria, Neetles, or Baela.

Edited by The hairy bear

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4 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

Switching the order of the deaths of Corlys and Rhaenyra would make it hard to explain the legitimization of Adam and Alyn. I would prefer it if they left it as it is (although obviously they should expand her character and give her something to do in the first season, so that her death has some impact when it happens)

Good point, I hadn't thought about that.

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3 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

Switching the order of the deaths of Corlys and Rhaenyra would make it hard to explain the legitimization of Adam and Alyn. I would prefer it if they left it as it is (although obviously they should expand her character and give her something to do in the first season, so that her death has some impact when it happens)

Oh, that could work easily enough, if Rhaenys were to be portrayed as a complex character who is actually happy to learn that she has two step(grand)sons ... and it would be actually fit rather well with how George clearly envisioned this couple to be considering how their apparently indulged their son's homosexuality (unlike, say, Alyssa Velaryon in Rhaena's case - she separated her daughter from her favorites whereas Laenor was allowed to keep his at High Tide) and, of course, with the fact that Corlys had no problem with the fact that his grandsons didn't look like Laenor.

But one could also just move around things somewhat. Let's say, they keep Rook's Rest as it is, but Rhaenys survives the death of her dragon and is sent back to Dragonstone (the Greens present could respect her too much to imprison her) or somehow escapes. Corlys could then die during the Gullet, say, while trying to save the drowning Jace, and Addam effectively becomes the leader of House Velaryon. Rhaenys then distances herself from Rhaenyra after the Nettles/Addam incidents and remains in the Red Keep when she flees the city. Afterwards she becomes the elder stateswoman trying to create a peace between the factions.

Rhaenys is a major character in season 1, apparently, and the description is that while she is a fervent supporter of Rhaenyra she also has doubts about her ability to rule. That could mean her story sort of goes in the direction I outlined - after all, the Corlys from the book could also be described that way. He is a fervent Black but he doesn't approve of the warmongering and really tries to end the war after Rhaenyra has taken the Iron Throne.

3 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

And as I see it, The Dance of Dragons is not a story that is in need of adding strong female characters with agency. The conflict itself can be reduced to a conflict between Rhaenyra and Alicent (the Princess and the Queen), and there are other female characters that can easily become fan favorites if they are properly fleshed out, such as Mysaria, Neetles, or Baela.

If they wanted to reduce things, they should make a miniseries, not a big show like they are doing.

Princess Rhaenys is a main character in season 1, apparently, so she has to do something ... but she doesn't do anything in FaB until she gives her 'we have more dragons' speech. And then she just dies.

If they wanted to streamline things, Rhaenys would be one of the main characters to cut considering George did nothing to develop her.

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@Lord Varys I don't know how much they want to develop/show us of the political intrigue at court and Daemon's War in the Stepstones, but they can easily add Rhaenys in either one of those storyline.

I'd prefer to see Rhaenys at King's Landing/Dragonstone/Driftmark as a mentor of sort for Rhaenyra while her husband and Daemon are away "playing at war". Maybe having Rhaenys/Meleys participate in one battle alongside Daemon/Caraxes could be a good way to show us her abilities, so we are more invest in her character when she dies during the Battle of Rook's Rest.

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Some new IMDB updates for House of the Dragon got posted: two key "Greensmen" - set dressers for the Art Department who specialize in gardening etc. Like the King's Landing gardens I think.

What's more interesting is that both of them actually worked before on Game of Thrones itself. Must be some staff guys HBO has for the British Isles in general?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11198330/fullcredits

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1 hour ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

@Lord Varys I don't know how much they want to develop/show us of the political intrigue at court and Daemon's War in the Stepstones, but they can easily add Rhaenys in either one of those storyline.

Of course, and if the first season doesn't get all that far, perhaps only to Rhaenyra's first wedding (or not even there) then this certainly would be a possibility.

1 hour ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

I'd prefer to see Rhaenys at King's Landing/Dragonstone/Driftmark as a mentor of sort for Rhaenyra while her husband and Daemon are away "playing at war". Maybe having Rhaenys/Meleys participate in one battle alongside Daemon/Caraxes could be a good way to show us her abilities, so we are more invest in her character when she dies during the Battle of Rook's Rest.

It seems as if Rhaenys is going to be some kind of mentor figure for Rhaenyra, but if they really go with Alicent only marrying Viserys I during the show technically Aemma Arryn should be a round for 1-2 episodes or more ... and if Rhaenyra's mother is still there, she should also have a couple of scenes with her daughter. If Aemma died before the show begins, then we won't have any such scenes, of course.

Overall, though, I'd have no problem if Rhaenys' fate is changed as part of the butterfly effect thing. As a main character she will have many scenes before the Dance even starts, so more than enough opportunities for the writers to treat her less like the expendable character she was for George. He basically killed her before he even bothered to give us some glimpses about her youth.

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Posted (edited)

House of the Dragon just had a couple of IMDB updates for behind the scenes crewmen. Several previously worked on Game of Thrones as electricians, gardeners, etc.

Intriguing is Daren Bailey....who worked on Game of Thrones since Season 2 as a "Marine Coordinator".  Even on the Bloodmoon pilot. Apparently his work involves setting up actors on boats - a given for Season 1 following the Rogue Prince time period, the Pirate Wars in the Stepstones.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1634117/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr16

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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