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More Dragon Casting Announced

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31 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Do we know who gets to be Mushroom? Or if he made the cut?

So far the 4 you listed and Viserys, Damon, Rhaenyra and Alicent have been cast. No one else has been announced. 

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10 hours ago, Sotan said:

So far the 4 you listed and Viserys, Damon, Rhaenyra and Alicent have been cast. No one else has been announced. 

Ok, thanks.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Sotan said:

I know! the past decade waiting for WoW is beyond ominous. 

Thank you so much. :) 

 

16 hours ago, Sigella said:

Do we know who gets to be Mushroom? Or if he made the cut?

I hope that we get Mushroom, because some of his stuff makes me lmao. Maybe Peter Dinklage again???Also, why do they call Lord Corlys the Lord of the Waters? It's supposed to be Lord of the Tides.

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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On 3/26/2021 at 6:21 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Thank you so much. :) 

 

I hope that we get Mushroom, because some of his stuff makes me lmao. Maybe Peter Dinklage again???Also, why do they call Lord Corlys the Lord of the Waters? It's supposed to be Lord of the Tides.

Lord of Waters for his preference for bastards maybe Addam, Alyn , and other "Laenor's" sons.

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On 2/18/2021 at 3:42 PM, Ran said:

It's not that hard to sit on things one knows about when they're not yours to share, so to speak. 

I think an earlier remark, about the fact that HBO could very well say, okay, but we do need more diversity in casting... it's all well and good to say GRRM assents, but one never knows what choices he would make if he were the sole person to make decisions. But he's not the sole person on HotD, by any means. There's two show runners, and they're all working for HBO in the end. 

George has different feelings about HotD than he does about ASoIaF, I think, the result of his experiences on GoT and that it's less near-and-dear to him.

 

Doesn't he often say that the show is the show and the books are the books?

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On 4/18/2021 at 4:45 AM, Eltharion21 said:

Lord of Waters for his preference for bastards maybe Addam, Alyn , and other "Laenor's" sons.

The traditional title is Lord of the Tides. Even if you had 100 illegitimate kids it would still be Lord of the Tides

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17 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

The traditional title is Lord of the Tides. Even if you had 100 illegitimate kids it would still be Lord of the Tides

Tide is usually made of Water, I mean they already changed so much things about the character based on his casting and leaks regarding his character description in the show based on Redanian Intelligence

Quote

[Corlys aka Corlys Velaryon] Male 50s -60s Series Regular Rhaenys's husband and Rhaenyra's right hand. New money. the head of House Velaryon and Lord of the Tides is a self-made man-richer than Lords Lannister and Hightower through his expeditions. He's the only one in this cast who has made his own way-even built his own castle-while everyone around him was simply born into their position. Battle tested and the most experienced seafarer in the known worid, he is married to Princess Rhaenys Targaryen, once the heir to the Iron Throne but passed over due to her gender. It's a slight that has long vexed him, and he deals with it by constantly reaching for more power, position, and recognition even at the expense of his family. He feels like he's the realm's Second Son." 

 

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10 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:

Tide is usually made of Water, I mean they already changed so much things about the character based on his casting and leaks regarding his character description in the show based on Redanian Intelligence

 

It should still be Tides, and just because they've changed other stuff, doesn't mean they'll change a title.

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On 2/12/2021 at 2:53 AM, Lord Varys said:

But even if they stuck with the Velaryon backstory up to Corlys - it would be a significant worldbuilding change because the Velaryons are pretty much as famed for their Valyrian lineage and looks as the Targaryens themselves. Monford Velaryon and Aurane Waters still look very Valyrian even centuries after they left Valyria.

GoT did it to Salladhor Saan, which worked ok since the purple eyes thing was completely thrown out. No comments of the prostitues of Lys (Saan being lyseni) to give it away.

Whether or not HotD plans to use the purple eyes is the interesting question here; in the story they are a big reason Rhaenyras' sons paternity was questioned. Silver hair and pug noses might be enough?

Also, if the Seasnake's son Laenor is mixed race, then Laenors sons by Rhaenyra shouldn't be all milk no coco, so skin colour might replace eye colour in function actually.

I wonder if house Velaryons valyrian heritage will be downplayed/written out or if they will be another skin colour valyrians with the silver hair? I personally would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Steve Touissant with silver hair and purple eyes.

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On 3/26/2021 at 6:21 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

I hope that we get Mushroom, because some of his stuff makes me lmao. Maybe Peter Dinklage again???

I don't think they will. Recasting actors from GoT (especially main cast) will ruin the fantasy; that this is same Westeros but a hundred years earlier (can't very well have the Imp turned fool or Arya playing Nettles, because the characters are already similar to begin with), it will be more costly than actors who haven't made it big yet and serve to remind the viewer of GoT and invite constant comparisons. I can't imagine anything beyond the odd cameo tbh.

 

Imagine them CGI the dude that played Tormund into Mushroom and the let him rant about his member :rofl:

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9 minutes ago, Sigella said:

GoT did it to Salladhor Saan, which worked ok since the purple eyes thing was completely thrown out. No comments of the prostitues of Lys (Saan being lyseni) to give it away.

I don't think it worked with Saan in the sense that the man is Lysene in the books and should also have been Lysene in the show. Him being black changed the worldbuilding there. It is not a big change or something that destroys the character or even affects the plot or anything ... but it is a change nonetheless.

And something that wouldn't have been necessary or anything if they had actually included the black characters George did create - Chataya and Alayaya, the crew from the Cinnamon Wind, Jalabhar Xho, etc.

It would have even been possible to extend the roles of those characters to a point.

9 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Whether or not HotD plans to use the purple eyes is the interesting question here; in the story they are a big reason Rhaenyras' sons paternity was questioned. Silver hair and pug noses might be enough?

I don't think they will have to use the looks or emphasize them all that much - they are not writing another history book. They can show with whom Rhaenyra had sex and when ... and they can also give Alicent and Otto and Criston access to intel that isn't limited to speculations about the looks of certain people.

9 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Also, if the Seasnake's son Laenor is mixed race, then Laenors sons by Rhaenyra shouldn't be all milk no coco, so skin colour might replace eye colour in function actually.

Actually, if Corlys is going to be the son of, say, a Summer Islander and his Velaryon father, then he would already be mixed race. That could mean Laena and Laeor could be lighter still, so that Rhaenyra's boys and Daemon's daughters both look white.

And since I don't like the idea of there being a modern racist quality to the issue about Rhaenyra's sons - because that's not intended - I'd prefer it they would go with the children not resembling Laenor in other ways than his skin color.

The way Rhaenyra's sons are treated is aristocratic elitism - the royal family do have to look a certain way, and if you don't look that way then you are suspect of not belonging to them. And it especially nasty that this kind of thing is pushed by somebody who actually married into House Targaryen and who was likely not exactly looking Valyrian.

9 minutes ago, Sigella said:

I wonder if house Velaryons valyrian heritage will be downplayed/written out or if they will be another skin colour valyrians with the silver hair? I personally would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Steve Touissant with silver hair and purple eyes.

I think they are going to go with Corlys being a black Valyrian with silver-gold hair and purple eyes.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think it worked with Saan in the sense that the man is Lysene in the books and should also have been Lysene in the show. Him being black changed the worldbuilding there. It is not a big change or something that destroys the character or even affects the plot or anything ... but it is a change nonetheless.

And something that wouldn't have been necessary or anything if they had actually included the black characters George did create - Chataya and Alayaya, the crew from the Cinnamon Wind, Jalabhar Xho, etc.

It would have even been possible to extend the roles of those characters to a point.

He is stated to be a lyseni pirate in the show but it nowhere states that Lys is made up by Valyrian people, so it works fine if you don't know stuff from the books. Not so good when you do and get annoyed over them missing out on this insanely good world build.

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think they will have to use the looks or emphasize them all that much - they are not writing another history book. They can show with whom Rhaenyra had sex and when ... and they can also give Alicent and Otto and Criston access to intel that isn't limited to speculations about the looks of certain people.

Here I disagree. There needs to be more than a spy report and some on screen canoodling for it to be believable for other characters. Alicent being powerhungry and going against the Kings decreed heir is one thing, but for others to join in a war that has a bunch of dragon on both sides... There'd have to be something that can be generally accepted as proof. Like Joff being blonde in GoT and Ned reading the book saying all Baratheons have black hair. 

21 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Actually, if Corlys is going to be the son of, say, a Summer Islander and his Velaryon father, then he would already be mixed race. That could mean Laena and Laeor could be lighter still, so that Rhaenyra's boys and Daemon's daughters both look white.

And since I don't like the idea of there being a modern racist quality to the issue about Rhaenyra's sons - because that's not intended - I'd prefer it they would go with the children not resembling Laenor in other ways than his skin color.

The way Rhaenyra's sons are treated is aristocratic elitism - the royal family do have to look a certain way, and if you don't look that way then you are suspect of not belonging to them. And it especially nasty that this kind of thing is pushed by somebody who actually married into House Targaryen and who was likely not exactly looking Valyrian.

Good points. I was thinking along the lines of skin, like hair and eye colour would be traits assocciated with house, ie house Velaryon has black roots, like Lannisters have green eyes or Tully auburn hair etc. Your version is would be more likely or realistic but it kind of goes against this bloodline/hereditary magic-thing that does play some part.

29 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think they are going to go with Corlys being a black Valyrian with silver-gold hair and purple eyes.

Yes, it'd be so awesome!

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14 minutes ago, Sigella said:

He is stated to be a lyseni pirate in the show but it nowhere states that Lys is made up by Valyrian people, so it works fine if you don't know stuff from the books. Not so good when you do and get annoyed over them missing out on this insanely good world build.

Of course, if you don't know that, then Salla is completely fine in the show. Xaro, too, although I must say I'd have preferred George's original Qartheen gay Xaro.

14 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Here I disagree. There needs to be more than a spy report and some on screen canoodling for it to be believable for other characters. Alicent being powerhungry and going against the Kings decreed heir is one thing, but for others to join in a war that has a bunch of dragon on both sides... There'd have to be something that can be generally accepted as proof. Like Joff being blonde in GoT and Ned reading the book saying all Baratheons have black hair. 

But the paternity of Rhaenyra's sons isn't really an important reason for the war. Yes, it comes up once in the Green Council, but that's it. Nobody joining the Greens every says it is because of how Rhaenyra's sons looked or that they might not be Laenor's biological children.

The political issues is that folks think the eldest son should become before a daughter, even if she is the eldest.

Mind you, the issue surrounding Rhaenyra's children certainly could tarnish her popularity and stuff ... but it is not something I'd expect to play a big role as such.

14 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Good points. I was thinking along the lines of skin, like hair and eye colour would be traits assocciated with house, ie house Velaryon has black roots, like Lannisters have green eyes or Tully auburn hair etc. Your version is would be more likely or realistic but it kind of goes against this bloodline/hereditary magic-thing that does play some part.

If the show had the Velaryons as a black Valyrian family in general we would get issues with all the Targaryen-Velaryon marriages in the story. With Alyssa Velaryon being Viserys/Daemon's great-grandmother - and their grandparents and parents both being siblings - they should then be black, too.

But the idea of a Velaryon - or anyone, really - marrying black nobility from abroad totally makes sense. Although I'd not have chosen Corlys for something like that - rather one of the folks on the Small Council, Criston Cole, or the Strongs - because the Velaryons are so intermarried with the Targaryens.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sigella said:
5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I think they are going to go with Corlys being a black Valyrian with silver-gold hair and purple eyes.

Yes, it'd be so awesome!

I more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Corlys will have silver hair and purple eyes; but the Strong boys although mixed race like their father, will have brown hair and eyes to set the boys apart, and give some kind of plausibility to the Green's accusations-at least to other characters. I could be completely wrong, but it just makes sense to me considering Corlys' official character profile on HBO states the Velaryons are an ancient Valyrian house.

The casting of Corlys is also deliberate considering the Danny Sapani rumor back in December, so there's a reason why the writer's decided to take this route. I think they're trying to expand the definition of Valyrian in show world, we've never seen non-Targaryan Valyrians in the show, and the first two we get happen to be POC is not a coincidence. It also makes me think race will be part of the rejection of Rhaenyra's boys, not just the alleged bastardy, but the look of foreignness as well. 

Edited by Sotan

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12 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Corlys will have silver hair and purple eyes; but the Strong boys although mixed race like their father, will have brown hair and eyes to set the boys apart, and give some kind of plausibility to the Green's accusations-at least to other characters. I could be completely wrong, but it just makes sense to me considering Corlys' official character profile on HBO states the Velaryons are an ancient Valyrian house.

The casting of Corlys is also deliberate considering the Danny Sapani rumor back in December, so there's a reason why the writer's decided to take this route. I think they're trying to expand the definition of Valyrian in show world, we've never seen non-Targaryan Valyrians in the show, and the first two we get happen to be POC is not a coincidence. It also makes me think race will be part of the rejection of Rhaenyra's boys, not just the alleged bastardy, but the look of foreignness as well. 

I'd not like if they made whatever issues folks have with Rhaenyra's sons is connected to skin color issues - especially since so far we don't have a Laenor casting yet, nor the casting of any of Rhaenyra's sons, nor any Strongs - because this kind of racisim doesn't seem to be a thing in Westeros. And I don't think it should be.

The Westerosi are xenophobic and don't like foreigners, that is made clear with how the Rogares are treated, and they look even more Targaryen than the Targaryens themselves. But that's based on the fact they keep foreign gods and refuse to learn the Common Tongue, not on their looks. And Corlys Velaryon is perhaps the most famous Westerosi of his era due to his fame as this great explorer ... nobody would look down on him or dislike him because of his skin color.

Also, keep in mind that Laenor Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys nearly got the Iron Throne - meaning when Corlys Velaryon married Rhaenys it was pretty clear he would be the husband of Aemon's heir, and one day the prince consort beside a Queen Rhaenys. The whole succession issue only started when Aemon died prematurely. If he had ruled as King Aemon I then Rhaenys and her children would have been his heirs, not Baelon's branch of the family.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd not like if they made whatever issues folks have with Rhaenyra's sons is connected to skin color issues - especially since so far we don't have a Laenor casting yet, nor the casting of any of Rhaenyra's sons, nor any Strongs - because this kind of racisim doesn't seem to be a thing in Westeros. And I don't think it should be.

The Westerosi are xenophobic and don't like foreigners, that is made clear with how the Rogares are treated, and they look even more Targaryen than the Targaryens themselves. But that's based on the fact they keep foreign gods and refuse to learn the Common Tongue, not on their looks. And Corlys Velaryon is perhaps the most famous Westerosi of his era due to his fame as this great explorer ... nobody would look down on him or dislike him because of his skin color.

Also, keep in mind that Laenor Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys nearly got the Iron Throne - meaning when Corlys Velaryon married Rhaenys it was pretty clear he would be the husband of Aemon's heir, and one day the prince consort beside a Queen Rhaenys. The whole succession issue only started when Aemon died prematurely. If he had ruled as King Aemon I then Rhaenys and her children would have been his heirs, not Baelon's branch of the family.

In book world you're absolutely right, show world is a whole other beast and could go either way. They may want to expand on how Grey Worm and Missandei were treated by Northerners. We'll get some sense once they cast the Strongs and the Velaryon siblings.  Like I said I could be completely wrong here, but something about the casting of Corlys says to me that is the route they are going. 

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33 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

1 Of course, if you don't know that, then Salla is completely fine in the show. Xaro, too, although I must say I'd have preferred George's original Qartheen gay Xaro.

2 But the paternity of Rhaenyra's sons isn't really an important reason for the war. Yes, it comes up once in the Green Council, but that's it. Nobody joining the Greens every says it is because of how Rhaenyra's sons looked or that they might not be Laenor's biological children.

3 The political issues is that folks think the eldest son should become before a daughter, even if she is the eldest.

Mind you, the issue surrounding Rhaenyra's children certainly could tarnish her popularity and stuff ... but it is not something I'd expect to play a big role as such.

4 If the show had the Velaryons as a black Valyrian family in general we would get issues with all the Targaryen-Velaryon marriages in the story. With Alyssa Velaryon being Viserys/Daemon's great-grandmother - and their grandparents and parents both being siblings - they should then be black, too.

5 But the idea of a Velaryon - or anyone, really - marrying black nobility from abroad totally makes sense. Although I'd not have chosen Corlys for something like that - rather one of the folks on the Small Council, Criston Cole, or the Strongs - because the Velaryons are so intermarried with the Targaryens.

Im on my phone now so I can’t chop up the reply so I’ll put numbers in the quote, hope you don’t mind.

1. 100% agreed. What was up with show Xaro and warlocks mass murdering the rulers of Qaarth? So unmotivated imho. Liked it much better for him to show up in Mereen pretending to be an old friend and then turning against Dany.

2. It is important for the war, its the reason given for originating and escalating feud/war. Aemon calls them Strongs and loses an eye, he gets sour and kills Jace, which causes the Blood and Cheese murder. I’m confident it will matter.

3. I’m not so sure. The Red Wedding wasn’t done because Robb broke his marriage-pact but it that was what Frey used to justify it with. Same should be true of legitimacy, in this social structure it is much worse to be a bastard than a woman. Bastards are thought to be morally defective.

4. Not sure here either. They could choose to disregard earlier marriages or let the house-traits-magic resolve it.

5. Not sure the Summer Isles nobility would carry the same prestige as nobility of Lys or Volantis, or even Qaarth. Jallabhar Xho was royalty but not very well respected.

Summer Isles is much more culturally different, being way too cool about free sex to be accepted or respected imo. But then showmakers might just disregard this too.

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Re: Salladhor Saan on the show,

The idea that the writers came up with (per Bryan Cogman) was that he was a Summer Islander by birth who had made Lys his home. This is why his accent, and that of Xaro Xhoan Daxos on the show (who was explicitly said to have had a Summer Isles origin on the show), were so similar. So there was an attempt at an explanation which worked all right (other than the fact that they never bothered making it explicit) given that nothing turned on Salladhor Saan being a native Lyseni or of Valyrian descent. 

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd not like if they made whatever issues folks have with Rhaenyra's sons is connected to skin color issues - especially since so far we don't have a Laenor casting yet, nor the casting of any of Rhaenyra's sons, nor any Strongs - because this kind of racisim doesn't seem to be a thing in Westeros.

This isn't so, though. Not one single character fails to notice summer islanders/dothraki/naathi/valyrian/dornish-rhoynish/qaartheen exact shade of pigment.

If valyrian traditions hadn't be necessary for magic they'd be overtly racist in "keeping the blood of the dragon pure". Through the entire story we're told hold highly valyrian looks are valued. Compare with Ibbaneese (I know they're not POC but they are their own race with traits people look down their noses at, which is racist every bit as much as the positive racism Danys recieves for her genetic make up). And note princess Daella getting so freaked out by the appaerance of an summer islander that she run away weeping thinking him a ghost, which doesn't say much for the diversity of Kings Landing.

I'm not saying this is a racist story but only that this story has racism in it, its part of the realism. 

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