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Canon Claude

Robb and Greywind’s remains

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I’ve been rereading ASOS, and of course that means I have to relive one of the most disturbing parts of the story with the Red Wedding. 
One thing that always sticks out for me is the lack of any information regarding Robb and Greywind’s remains. Yes, we know how the Freys mutilated and desecrated their bodies, but we don’t know what happened to any of the remains after that. Is Robbwind on display at the Twins? And Joffrey mentioned demanding Robb Stark’s head, but did he get it? Will we find out what happened to those remains? Do we even want to know?

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Someone made a thread about this a while ago, and one of the responses was that Robb and Greywind's bodies, heads included, are probably at the bottom of a latrine pit in the Twins so that the Freys can spend their days shitting and pissing on them. That idea sat with me for a long time.

I almost don't want to know what happened to the remains. What matters more will be the vengeance that falls upon House Frey.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn

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1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The rest of Robb's remains is not important. 

Yeah, I'm sure the Northerners would agree with that assessment.

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Joffrey was going to request Robb's head.  Chances are, it was sent.  It ended with Qyburn and he attached it to Robert Strong. 

Wow. Not saying I believe that's what's going to happen, but imagine if the abomination had gone that route...

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14 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The rest of Robb's remains is not important. 

13 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Yeah, I'm sure the Northerners would agree with that assessment.

 

 

 

I'm with Floki on this one, it's been five books and the subject of Ned's bones is still important enough to be discussed by characters in the story. Robb's crown is important enough that people have been stealing it from each other. The desecration of Robb's corpse went above and beyond the usual cruelty of the story. There is going to be some kind of resolution on that, and there's an ample amount of POV characters we can bring to the Twins for that purpose.

Edited by James Steller

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On 2/13/2021 at 2:37 AM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Yeah, I'm sure the Northerners would agree with that assessment.

Wow. Not saying I believe that's what's going to happen, but imagine if the abomination had gone that route...

It doesn't matter.  Very little will remain of the north after Jon, Stannis, Roose, and Ramsay have had their turn at screwing things up.  The battle of ice will put a lot of men in the ground.  Jon mismanaged the Watch.  Ramsay will only make matters worse after Roose and Stannis are done.  Northern opinion is of no importance. 

I do wish to see Robb's head on Robert Strong.  It would lend interest to Brandon's vision of a giant with thick black blood (tar).

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On 2/13/2021 at 8:55 AM, Stevie-o said:

Why wouldn't they have thrown Rob in the river with his mom?

He's a Stark.  The Boltons have this tradition of skinning Starks and keeping their hides.  Robb's hide is hanging in Bolton's new digs, Winterfell.  Robb left a boy and came back a patch of skin.  He was lord of the castle and now he decorates the castle.

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2 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

He's a Stark.  The Boltons have this tradition of skinning Starks and keeping their hides.  Robb's hide is hanging in Bolton's new digs, Winterfell.  Robb left a boy and came back a patch of skin.  He was lord of the castle and now he decorates the castle.

That doesn't make sense. Why would the Freys go through the trouble of sewing Greywind's head on Robb's body just for Roose to flay Robb afterwards? 

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On 2/13/2021 at 3:46 PM, James Steller said:

I'm with Floki on this one, it's been five books and the subject of Ned's bones is still important enough to be discussed by characters in the story. Robb's crown is important enough that people have been stealing it from each other. The desecration of Robb's corpse went above and beyond the usual cruelty of the story. There is going to be some kind of resolution on that, and there's an ample amount of POV characters we can bring to the Twins for that purpose.

Agreed. Whatever their current location, I suspect that Robb's remains were not given a "proper" burial (for the Starks, that means being laid to rest in the crypt at Winterfell with a stone carving and a sword). Leaving these remains in an incomplete and/or un-entombed state facilitates a rebirth. 

I believe that GRRM uses a variation on the Celtic view of rebirth, where a person can be reborn in a baby within his own family and preferably a baby with the same name. Rebirths in ASOIAF are even more diverse and much more literary, but we can pick up on clues. For instance, Ned Stark's bones have also been kept out of the Winterfell crypt. We see shades of Ned "reborn" in characters such as Dolorous Edd (Eddard - Ned - Edd) and Rattleshirt (a man who wears the bones of his enemies is an ironic rebirth for a man whose bones are missing). 

A fairly clear rebirth for Robb Stark is the Borroq skinchanger character who shows up with his boar and is the last wildling through the gate when Jon allows the Free Folk to take refuge at Castle Black. Boars are associated with the death of kings in ASOIAF and I believe boar is the main course being served at the Red Wedding when Robb is killed. Borroq calls Jon "brother" when they meet. He and his boar live in the lichyard (graveyard). 

Joffrey made a couple of references to wanting Robb's head and he said he was going to make Sansa eat it. I am lately putting thought into GRRM's close association of fruits and body parts, and have been thinking about Sansa's blood orange damage from her breakfast with Arya, Ser Dontos hitting Sansa over the head with a melon morning star, and the breakfast with Littlefinger where Sansa passes over the pommegranate but takes a bite from a pear and finds juice running down her chin. I suspect that the Ser Dontos incident with the melon morning star is a clue for us about Robb's head: the situation arises because Joffrey is punishing Sansa for Robb's combat victory at the Whispering Wood, as I recall. Melons = heads in GRRM's system of fruits and body parts. There may be wordplay in the pear Sansa eats during the meal with Littlefinger: "pear" and "pair." She takes on the new identity of Alayne at that point so she has a "pair" of heads - the Stark identity associated with the melon from Ser Dontos (and Robb?) and the "natural daughter" identity from the pear eaten with Petyr Baelish. 

On 2/13/2021 at 3:18 PM, Lord Lannister said:

I have to imagine the rest of the remains are at the bottom of the Trident.

I do suspect that Robb's remains were eventually thrown in the river, like Catelyn's remains. Robb was born at Riverrun and Hoster Tully said that Robb had his eyes. So I think Robb has a strong association with rivers, even though he is technically a Stark. There are many references to crossing rivers or being unable to cross rivers in the Catelyn POVs associated with Robb's military successes and his doomed monarchy. To get some handle on the river symbolism, think of the River Styx and its role as the boundary around the Underworld. There is foreshadowing in Edmure Tully preventing Tywin's army from crossing the river and inadvertently blowing Robb's entire battle strategy - I think this is telling us that Tywin will end up "winning" over Robb because Tywin is prevented from crossing but Robb crosses the river and then can't get back (because the Freys control the bridge). 

Rivers are often associated with rebirth in literature, and we certainly see Catelyn being reborn after her body is thrown in the river. We may also see a rebirth of sorts for Hoster Tully as Jaime has taken on the traveling companion of Hoster the Hostage Blackwood in his duties in the Riverlands. I'm excited to see what GRRM has in store for us with characters such as Raynald Westerling who falls in the river but apparently survives and crawls away after the Red Wedding. 

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On 2/13/2021 at 2:55 PM, Stevie-o said:

Why wouldn't they have thrown Rob in the river with his mom?

They would have been found with Cat's corpse if it was the case, his remains are very important. The latrine pit hypothesis is more likely to me. 

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The Freys had issues with Robb but they wouldn't throw his remains in the outhouse.  They put Cat in the river because that is what her family would have done.  Cat murdered an innocent Frey but they didn't throw her in the shit pit. 

The wedding accomplished its purpose.  Walder is not cruel for the sake of being cruel.  He is only as cruel as he needs to be.  His boys got a little carried away with the head thing but Walder is a sensible man.  He would send Robb's body to the north to show fake respect. 

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1 minute ago, James West said:

He would send Robb's body to the north to show fake respect. 

Wolf head and all? Plus, I highly doubt that gesture would be seen as anything but an insult, fake or not.

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2 minutes ago, James West said:

He would send Robb's body to the north to show fake respect. 

Which part, the head or the body?

Would Greywind's head still be attached?

3 minutes ago, James West said:

They put Cat in the river because that is what her family would have done.

They did it in a cruel mockery of Tully funeral rights. It's like somebody burying somebody only halfway through, leaving the legs to rot outside the grave.

4 minutes ago, James West said:

Cat murdered an innocent Frey but they didn't throw her in the shit pit. 

I can't even begin to point out why this is beyond debating in bad faith.

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Posted (edited)

Dany saw Robb's body in her visions.  The Freys would have it on display for the public to mock.  

On 2/13/2021 at 1:29 AM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Joffrey was going to request Robb's head.  Chances are, it was sent.  It ended with Qyburn and he attached it to Robert Strong.  Greywind's pelt has too many holes to be of use as a garment but it is a trophy to the victors.  The rest of Robb's remains is not important. 

 

Edited by Kierria

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18 hours ago, Kierria said:

Dany saw Robb's body in her visions.  The Freys would have it on display for the public to mock.  

 

Wouldn't we have heard about that by now? Lots of characters throughout the kingdom keep bringing up the Freys and the Red Wedding. We should have heard about something like that by now, unless you're thinking of something traditional like a head on spike which everyone seems to do.

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On 2/12/2021 at 7:39 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Somebody once wrote, greywind’s felt keeps Walder warm.  I don’t think so. Roose would have it.  

 

On 2/12/2021 at 8:51 PM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Someone made a thread about this a while ago, and one of the responses was that Robb and Greywind's bodies, heads included, are probably at the bottom of a latrine pit in the Twins so that the Freys can spend their days shitting and pissing on them. That idea sat with me for a long time.

 

On 2/28/2021 at 11:30 AM, Willam Stark said:

They would have been found with Cat's corpse if it was the case, his remains are very important. The latrine pit hypothesis is more likely to me. 

I hope neither of this is true.God,I really feel sick thinking about it.:crying:

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2 hours ago, Groo said:

Wouldn't we have heard about that by now? Lots of characters throughout the kingdom keep bringing up the Freys and the Red Wedding. We should have heard about something like that by now, unless you're thinking of something traditional like a head on spike which everyone seems to do.

I'm pretty sure the vision in question is her House of the Undying vision. It's at the time of the red wedding as there are dead guests laying about and hacked up tressle tables. I doubt his body was left mutilated in Walders seat to rot. Not a literal vision

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