US Politics: One No Trump

[DMC]

59 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Dubya did or tried to address evangelical concerns with Terri Schavo, partial birth abortion,  banning gay marriage, stem cells, the office of faith based initiatives, and the national day of prayer.  Trump is way behind Bush when it comes to  catering to evangelicals.

I agree it's rather objective that Dubya's administration, campaigns, and rhetoric all rather clearly catered to evangelicals much more than Trump ever did.  Which just goes to show, as mentioned, that all they really cared about was racism in the guise of populism.  The emergence of Mike Huckabee was an early indicator of this.

I think what distinguishes Trumpism from simply conservatism or the general trends of the GOP for the past 40 years is first, yes, his isolationism and anti-globalist bend.  This can be traced here in the states to the John Birch Society way back in the fifties, and internationally has been a feature of the rise of the radical right for the past thirty years, because it's deeply linked to racial resentment.  The most surprising aspect of this from Trump's tenure is he actually - by and large - maintained his word on this when it comes to foreign policy (as opposed to foreign trade) and didn't start a major war.

Other than that, I'd say what defines Trumpism is ironically more openness.  More openly racist, more openly hostile to democratic norms - and eventually democracy itself (and subsequently more openly authoritarian), more openly corrupt, more openly hostile and toxic rhetoric, more openly violent, and of course more openly cultish and thus more openly vengeful to anyone that dares step out of line.

I remember both "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Rock describing their characters as just extreme versions of their actual personalities - the "dialed up to 11" remark is a good way to describe this.  Trumpism is the pro wrestling-ization of the far right, conservatism, and the GOP.  He saw those teabaggers ridiculously dressed up in revolutionary garb fill the mall in 2009 protesting..not much of anything other than the fact the president was black and exclaimed, "That!  Let's do that!  But MORE!"

[Lollygag]

1 hour ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

The point is, we are seeing one of the biggest disparities between a few and the rest of the population since this kind of thing has been recorded--and if you're saying, "nah, won't happen," then you're arguing against historical precedent. In fact, it is happening, it's just currently being directed at issues that aren't the cause of anyone's problems. It wouldn't be some noble war of the poor overthrowing the rich--it will be things like the capitol. 

If you're saying people acting out like children do because they're unable to articulate what they're really thinking and feeling, then yeah, I can see that.

I'd caution against reading any one thing into things like that though. They're a are a mix and it includes folks who aren't wired to handle change in a time of great change, cultural and religious conflicts, an underestimated one I think is men's roles in society being in flux isn't being taken well by some, and culturally, just hating government and wanting to see it overthrown is rooted deep in American culture. No one wanted anyone hurt, but even leftys in OH got a perverse thrill of seeing the Capitol overrun before it came to light how bad it was. In rural culture, governments eventually going bad/worlds ending/apocalypses of all sorts is practically the air we breathe.

[DMC]

31 minutes ago, Week said:

"Actual quote from a PA GOP official, explaining why Sen. Toomey should be censured: “We did not send him there to vote his conscience. We did not send him there to ‘do the right thing’ or whatever”"

Edmund Burke would be so proud.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

21 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If you're saying people acting out like children do because they're unable to articulate what they're really thinking and feeling, then yeah, I can see that.

I'd caution against reading any one thing into things like that though. They're a are a mix and it includes folks who aren't wired to handle change in a time of great change, cultural and religious conflicts, an underestimated one I think is men's roles in society being in flux isn't being taken well by some, and culturally, just hating government and wanting to see it overthrown is rooted deep in American culture. No one wanted anyone hurt, but even leftys in OH got a perverse thrill of seeing the Capitol overrun before it came to light how bad it was. In rural culture, governments eventually going bad/worlds ending/apocalypses of all sorts is practically the air we breathe.

They're not acting out like children--they've been swindled and preyed upon by the wealthy. And what "leftys" wanted to see the Capitol overrun? There is a miniscule percentage of lefties who are crazy, I guess, but why do they matter. You probably have a few centrists who were all excited about the Capitol too.

ETA: Maybe a visual example of why people aren't acting out like children would be useful. Here's a link to the short grain of rice video that visually depicts the difference between 100,000 dollars, 1 billion dollars, and the Bezos Bucks (250 billion). It's offensive: Rice. Part 2: Jeff Bezos net worth. #rice #billion #billions #amazon #jeffbezos #money #personalfinance #xyzcba (tiktok.com)

 

[Lollygag]

44 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

They're not acting out like children--they've been swindled and preyed upon by the wealthy. And what "leftys" wanted to see the Capitol overrun? There is a miniscule percentage of lefties who are crazy, I guess, but why do they matter. You probably have a few centrists who were all excited about the Capitol too.

ETA: Maybe a visual example of why people aren't acting out like children would be useful. Here's a link to the short grain of rice video that visually depicts the difference between 100,000 dollars, 1 billion dollars, and the Bezos Bucks (250 billion). It's offensive: Rice. Part 2: Jeff Bezos net worth. #rice #billion #billions #amazon #jeffbezos #money #personalfinance #xyzcba (tiktok.com)

 

 

Bold: reread my post. Clearly not what I said.

I'm not arguing your base point. I'm saying you view things through a particular lens and you're projecting that motive onto others who do not.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I remember both "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Rock describing their characters as just extreme versions of their actual personalities - the "dialed up to 11" remark is a good way to describe this.  Trumpism is the pro wrestling-ization of the far right, conservatism, and the GOP.  He saw those teabaggers ridiculously dressed up in revolutionary garb fill the mall in 2009 protesting..not much of anything other than the fact the president was black and exclaimed, "That!  Let's do that!  But MORE!"

I agree to 90%. The one grievance I have is, that the orange one's made a concious decission ("Let's do that!"). He is not that smart and capable of the necessary degree of introspection to pull it off as an act. In addition, if it were an act, the mask would've slipped now and then. In his core he and his family are racists. So he did not go out and say "Alright, let's do it!" and then after he left the stage put his racist suit into a closet like a Steve Austin leather vest. Him going over the top with it, was also not an act. That's who he actually is, and what he actually believed.

That's also basically what I believe will stop Teddy boy from ever leading that fascist movement (and/or becoming President). Cruz is a spineless weasel with no deeply held convictions or beliefs - other then that he should be President because... But with him, you can see it's all an act. On top of that nature has blessed Teddy boy with that face no beard could hide. Graham and those other wannabes fall in the same category.

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The one grievance I have is, that the orange one's made a concious decission ("Let's do that!"). He is not that smart and capable of the necessary degree of introspection to pull it off as an act. In addition, if it were an act, the mask would've slipped now and then. In his core he and his family are racists. So he did not go out and say "Alright, let's do it!" and then after he left the stage put his racist suit into a closet like a Steve Austin leather vest. Him going over the top with it, was also not an act. That's who he actually is, and what he actually believed.

I'm certainly not arguing against the fact that Trump is in actuality a racist.  Whether he bought in to the exaggeration and hyperbole that characterize his public persona and rhetoric, or when or if he starting buying into his own horseshit, or that whole psychology of a compulsive liar?  Who knows, I don't really care.  But I do think, yes, Trump made a conscious decision to double down on the racist rhetoric as part of his appeal.  In particular, his decision to become the standard-bearer of the birther movement was significantly different than his public image beforehand and I definitely don't think he actually believed that shit.

[Week]

9 hours ago, Week said:

One addendum to add, which links standard GOP to Trumpism is "own the libs" as an ethos. As raison d'etre even.

When owning the libs goes wrong.

 

Seriously hoping for the best of the residents of Texas - the situation sounds pretty dire in some areas. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm certainly not arguing against the fact that Trump is in actuality a racist.  Whether he bought in to the exaggeration and hyperbole that characterize his public persona and rhetoric, or when or if he starting buying into his own horseshit, or that whole psychology of a compulsive liar?  Who knows, I don't really care.  But I do think, yes, Trump made a conscious decision to double down on the racist rhetoric as part of his appeal.  In particular, his decision to become the standard-bearer of the birther movement was significantly different than his public image beforehand and I definitely don't think he actually believed that shit.

Central Park 5?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

9 hours ago, Lollygag said:

 

Bold: reread my post. Clearly not what I said.

I'm not arguing your base point. I'm saying you view things through a particular lens and you're projecting that motive onto others who do not.

 

I quoted your post and what you said. You said it's either acting like children or it's not happening, and since it happened then they're acting like children per your binary. Your last sentence above is mind boggling (I am expanding on thoughts and an upcoming book by the Patriotic Millionaires who are not of whatever it is you think my "particular lens" is).

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, Week said:

When owning the libs goes wrong.

 

Seriously hoping for the best of the residents of Texas - the situation sounds pretty dire in some areas. 

If I remember correctly Texas has no connection to a wider power grid and thus no ability to buy electricity from suppliers such as Quebec in cases such as this. 

[Mindwalker]

Anand Giridharadas Says Trump-Era 'Arsonists get to Come Back as Firefighters' or, How liberals help rehabilitate the worst offenders

 

https://the.ink/p/secondchances

Who gets a second chance?

On accountability and reinvention in American life

 

[Fragile Bird]

14 minutes ago, maarsen said:

If I remember correctly Texas has no connection to a wider power grid and thus no ability to buy electricity from suppliers such as Quebec in cases such as this. 

Texas doesn’t need to cooperate with other states, because Texas is Texas. 

[Week]

21 minutes ago, maarsen said:

If I remember correctly Texas has no connection to a wider power grid and thus no ability to buy electricity from suppliers such as Quebec in cases such as this. 

Correct, the lower 48 has three power grids - Eastern, Western, and Texas Interconnects.

Ars has a good overview - https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/texas-power-grid-crumples-under-the-cold/

The gap seems to be across nuclear, coal, and gas plants. Of course, Faux News will show icy wind turbines, however I believe wind power production is higher than expected (still lower in the winter due to the season). Weather forecast last I heard does not sound like it's due for imminent improvement either.

[Fez]

9 minutes ago, Week said:

Correct, the lower 48 has three power grids - Eastern, Western, and Texas Interconnects.

Ars has a good overview - https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/texas-power-grid-crumples-under-the-cold/

The gap seems to be across nuclear, coal, and gas plants. Of course, Faux News will show icy wind turbines, however I believe wind power production is higher than expected (still lower in the winter due to the season). Weather forecast last I heard does not sound like it's due for imminent improvement either.

Interesting. I don't understand powergrids at all, but how does that square with this?

https://www.ft.com/content/d4ca89e6-9a74-407c-802d-eed2f0963e50

Quote

The price of electricity delivered in the state surged past $2,000 per megawatt-hour on Friday, far above prices that averaged $25 last year.

Is that just referring to within-state markets? Or is there some way, albeit very expensive, for Texas to be purchasing energy from outside suppliers? Because if it's just within-state, I'd have thought all the electricity would be locked in to delivery contracts already and there'd be no way to purchase any.

[Lollygag]

1 hour ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I quoted your post and what you said. You said it's either acting like children or it's not happening, and since it happened then they're acting like children per your binary. Your last sentence above is mind boggling (I am expanding on thoughts and an upcoming book by the Patriotic Millionaires who are not of whatever it is you think my "particular lens" is).

I asked you to reread it, not just quote it. You twisted my words into another meaning and you apparently at least twice were confused about the subject of my sentences.

Yes, the Capitol riots were people acting like children rather than behaving like adults. Do I really have to explain this? And I explained my last sentence in detail. A whole lotta things go into the Trumpism crap and economic explanations are only one part of that. If that's anyone's sole focus, then you've got these people very wrong.

Bold: wut? There was no binary in anything I said.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Week said:

Correct, the lower 48 has three power grids - Eastern, Western, and Texas Interconnects.

I remember reading about this in college and my only thought was, "Of course Texas would have their own grid." It's pretty smart though. Cyber warfare in the future should target power grids, so having your own makes a lot of sense. Frankly we need to do a lot more to disperse their power so damn near half the country can't be turned off in say, a terrible cold front.

I believe it's -16 here in sunny Minneapolis. 

[Fragile Bird]

CNBC just reported an electricity trade done in Texas this morning: $8,750 for a kilowatt hour. Normal price, $40.

Many people in Texas are hooked up with utility companies on a “you pay whatever our cost is” basis.

I cannot imagine what their electricity bills are going to be.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Texas grid is deregulated, no deep insight into how that impacts prices although I assume the price is more prone to supply-demand variances than other states (albeit, it does have ERCOT as the overarching 'supplier' as noted in one of the links).

The last time Texas had significant cold weather, many of the power generators failed because of frozen water intakes (they needed water to operate). Might be part of the cause here too.

[Week]

58 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I remember reading about this in college and my only thought was, "Of course Texas would have their own grid." It's pretty smart though. Cyber warfare in the future should target power grids, so having your own makes a lot of sense. Frankly we need to do a lot more to disperse their power so damn near half the country can't be turned off in say, a terrible cold front.

I believe it's -16 here in sunny Minneapolis. 

It makes sense ... If you actually invest in it. There's definitely risk/reward in terms of a national grid - strong protections and control at scale wouldn't be as expensive as allowing smaller grids. I.e. AWS security and standards are much stronger than your typical data center. Much of the "hacking" of AWS are a result of mismanagement by AWS customers.

51 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

CNBC just reported an electricity trade done in Texas this morning: $8,750 for a kilowatt hour. Normal price, $40.

Many people in Texas are hooked up with utility companies on a “you pay whatever our cost is” basis.

I cannot imagine what their electricity bills are going to be.

Free market works!

Joys of deregulation - a race to the bottom to deliver low prices at the expense of good service and investment./s

https://twitter.com/historianess/status/1361661596498558977

 

37 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

The last time Texas had significant cold weather, many of the power generators failed because of frozen water intakes (they needed water to operate). Might be part of the cause here too.

Yup, agree, almost certainly.