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US Politics: One No Trump


Fragile Bird
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37 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

 

"Now?"  College and education has ALWAYS been a political thing, including who has access to it and what is taught (and the moral implications of having one kind of education or another).  This actually seems to me to be pretty much a political reality of the US since, more or less, the point at which John Harvard founded a seminary in a little village called Cambridge.

They've been griping about liberal universities since I can remember but now it's escalating to education/college is a bad thing and it's maybe better to not go at all.

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3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

They've been griping about liberal universities since I can remember but now it's escalating to education/college is a bad thing and it's maybe better to not go at all.

Long theme in American politics - deep roots in the 19th Century as well (see, e.g., Jackson, Andrew).  

And to be clear, there is a reason for this.  College/exposure to different communities/ideas DOES change people and their outlook on life.  (And it's a TOTALLY separate discussion, but I think we probably DO overproduce 4-year college graduates.)  I think the military can have a similar effect.  Some of it is the actual content of the education.  Some of it is the exposure to other people who are outside your immediate community and being forced to build communities with those people.

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40 minutes ago, Fez said:

Also, Romney and Cotton have not said what their increase is to; it might be $15, but it might be less. Right now the minimum wage in Arkansas is $11, so assume it's at least that amount.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if it's either less or more gradual, hell maybe both.  Maybe something like the Florida initiative.  Also should be noted they're saying the proposal wouldn't go into effect until "after the pandemic" and would include "protection for small businesses," whatever the fuck that means.  Somewhat surprisingly, they're saying they'd set the wage to increase automatically with inflation.  

Gotta say I'm surprised the likes of Tom Cotton is on board with this.  Hell, I'm a bit surprised Romney is.  Sometimes I wonder what 2012 Romney would say about 2021 Romney (then again, in 2012 I wondered what 2006 Romney would say about 2012 Romney).  Also makes you wonder how many GOP votes there would be for both a wage hike and something close to Biden's immigration reform proposal.  Pretty frustrating that you know neither is ever gonna be allowed to reach cloture because polarization dictates the GOP would never let the Dems get a W like either would be.

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3 hours ago, maarsen said:

Here in Ontario, I think the rule is to plan for once in a hundred year events.  I know our hospitals now being built are designed to withstand a 7.4 magnitude earthquake. This part of the world has not had any such quake in 4 or 5 hundred years. Floods, power outages, and such are also planned for with multiple redundancies. With climate change once in a hundred year events come  a lot more regularly.

Most infrastructure in the US is from the last century, post-war and some even earlier. If we ever get around to passing an infrastructure bill I'd hope the design would have some redundancies built in it.

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17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Gotta say I'm surprised the likes of Tom Cotton is on board with this.  Hell, I'm a bit surprised Romney is. 

I feel like this fits right into the non-Trump version of conservative populism that Cotton has been pushing for a while. And as for Romney, I think its a combination of hoping (wrongly, I think) that successful conservative policymaking can break the GOP from MAGA-ness, and wanting to leave a legacy as a legislator.

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7 minutes ago, Fez said:

I feel like this fits right into the non-Trump version of conservative populism that Cotton has been pushing for a while.

I guess, but I don't know how he hasn't realized by now he's kidding himself with that.  He's boxed in to virtual nothingness between Sasse and..all the full-on Trumpists.

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Y’all, I’m putting this here even though only tangentially related.  Citi is going to have to swallow one of the biggest goofs of all time.  Revlon (the troubled cosmetics company) owes about $1 billion under a syndicated facility due 2023.  Citi is the administrative agent for the facility, meaning Revlon pays Citi who then on pays to the various lenders (for a fee).  Revlon narrowly missed filing for Chapter 11 in November, saved only by a capital infusion from Perelman’s private equity arm.  So, in August, Citi received its quarterly interest payment from Revlon.  Rather than just paying over the amount, someone accidentally wired half a billion dollars as basically a prepayment to lenders by mistake.  Whoops.  While they got 2/3 back, some lenders hung on and took the position that basically Citi had bought out their debt.  Citi sued.  Citi lost.  The judge described it as “one of the biggest blunders in banking history.”  All in the WSJ and pretty incredible, frankly.

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55 minutes ago, DMC said:

Gotta say I'm surprised the likes of Tom Cotton is on board with this.  Hell, I'm a bit surprised Romney is.  Sometimes I wonder what 2012 Romney would say about 2021 Romney (then again, in 2012 I wondered what 2006 Romney would say about 2012 Romney).  Also makes you wonder how many GOP votes there would be for both a wage hike and something close to Biden's immigration reform proposal.  Pretty frustrating that you know neither is ever gonna be allowed to reach cloture because polarization dictates the GOP would never let the Dems get a W like either would be.

2012 Romney would simply ask 2021 Romney what is popular. 

 

1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

And to be clear, there is a reason for this.  College/exposure to different communities/ideas DOES change people and their outlook on life.  (And it's a TOTALLY separate discussion, but I think we probably DO overproduce 4-year college graduates.)  I think the military can have a similar effect.  Some of it is the actual content of the education.  Some of it is the exposure to other people who are outside your immediate community and being forced to build communities with those people.

Warhawk!!! 

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35 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Y’all, I’m putting this here even though only tangentially related.  Citi is going to have to swallow one of the biggest goofs of all time.  Revlon (the troubled cosmetics company) owes about $1 billion under a syndicated facility due 2023.  Citi is the administrative agent for the facility, meaning Revlon pays Citi who then on pays to the various lenders (for a fee).  Revlon narrowly missed filing for Chapter 11 in November, saved only by a capital infusion from Perelman’s private equity arm.  So, in August, Citi received its quarterly interest payment from Revlon.  Rather than just paying over the amount, someone accidentally wired half a billion dollars as basically a prepayment to lenders by mistake.  Whoops.  While they got 2/3 back, some lenders hung on and took the position that basically Citi had bought out their debt.  Citi sued.  Citi lost.  The judge described it as “one of the biggest blunders in banking history.”  All in the WSJ and pretty incredible, frankly.

We need a “wow” emoji.

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7 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Central Park 5?

Going all-in on birtherism is significantly different.  More importantly, it's a hell of a lot different than the political persona he cultivated the previous decades, from palling around with Bill Clinton to abandoning the Reform party when it started to be co-opted by the likes of Pat Buchanan and David Duke to registering as a Democrat in 2001 and staying one throughout Dubya's tenure.

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Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again. He will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country. Where necessary and appropriate, I will back primary rivals who espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First. We want brilliant, strong, thoughtful, and compassionate leadership

Oh boy, its never ending with this guy. Edit: Apparently an earlier version had him referring to McConnell's multiple chins......

Edited by IheartIheartTesla
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4 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Long theme in American politics - deep roots in the 19th Century as well (see, e.g., Jackson, Andrew).  

And to be clear, there is a reason for this.  College/exposure to different communities/ideas DOES change people and their outlook on life.  (And it's a TOTALLY separate discussion, but I think we probably DO overproduce 4-year college graduates.)  I think the military can have a similar effect.  Some of it is the actual content of the education.  Some of it is the exposure to other people who are outside your immediate community and being forced to build communities with those people.

I totally agree with this, but I think my outlook actually changed the most post-college and I think while many like to use college and those damned liberal professors as the scapegoat for where our kids go astray - I think it often ends up boiling down to the good old urban/rural divide.

I only lived in smaller towns or rural areas growing up and I went to a university that was in a small town located in a rural area and a lot of my friends went there too. So while I was definitely exposed to certain ideas and philosophies in an academic sense, socially it was pretty easy for me to stay well within my comfort zone.

It was really afterwards when, with degree in hand, I experienced urban life for the first time. Moving to a big city is really what changed a lot of my more conservative values that I had held from childhood mainly through family and community osmosis. I guess my point is that college does two things, it’ll expose people to ideas and diversity but then also tends to funnel many graduates to urban areas for white collar jobs. Was really the combo of these things in my case that impacted how I view society today.  

If, for example, someone grew up conservative in rural Alabama, went to Auburn, and then found employment somewhere else in rural America - I really wouldn’t expect that the 4 years at Auburn would radically change someone’s politics or life outlook (and that’s not a knock on Auburn! :lol:). There’s definitely some foundation laying in universities but what you do after plays a bigger part, IMO.

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5 minutes ago, S John said:

I totally agree with this, but I think my outlook actually changed the most post-college and I think while many like to use college and those damned liberal professors as the scapegoat for where our kids go astray - I think it often ends up boiling down to the good old urban/rural divide.

I only lived in smaller towns or rural areas growing up and I went to a university that was in a small town located in a rural area and a lot of my friends went there too. So while I was definitely exposed to certain ideas and philosophies in an academic sense, socially it was pretty easy for me to stay well within my comfort zone.

It was really afterwards when, with degree in hand, I experienced urban life for the first time. Moving to a big city is really what changed a lot of my more conservative values that I had held from childhood mainly through family and community osmosis. I guess my point is that college does two things, it’ll expose people to ideas and diversity but then also tends to funnel many graduates to urban areas for white collar jobs. Was really the combo of these things in my case that impacted how I view society today.  

If, for example, someone grew up conservative in rural Alabama, went to Auburn, and then found employment somewhere else in rural America - I really wouldn’t expect that the 4 years at Auburn would radically change someone’s politics or life outlook (and that’s not a knock on Auburn! :lol:). There’s definitely some foundation laying in universities but what you do after plays a bigger part, IMO.

Yeah - the point is to be put in a position outside your comfort zone where you are confronted with different ideas and attitudes on a social level which OFTEN coincides with a university education (for me that was New York City and law school).  

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Always accuse the other side of which you yourself are guilty (a bit weird describing Mitch as the 'other side' when he just voted to acquit). Its his standard MO.

A great many of us have wondered if all his accusations of voter fraud are to hide that he must have asked for such fraud himself from his minions. If I had to pick a state it would be Florida.

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It would be poetic justice if Trump managed to take McConnell out. Figuratively speaking. Although I don't know how he would do that.

More from The Lincoln Project:

Ryan Girdusky: FBI INVESTIGATING Lincoln Project As Founders Resign

Edited by Mindwalker
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Now with the escalating crisis, no end in sight until Monday - shouldn't FEMA and the National Guard be involved here? Is the delay due to Texas pols' continues idiocy or slow response by Biden? 

Eta - FEMA is -- not a ton of reporting though -- https://abc13.com/texas-disaster-declaration-president-joe-biden-governor-greg-abbott-winter-weather/10339964

https://abc13.com/texas-national-guard-disaster-declaration-governor-greg-abbott-winter-weather/10345709

Nevermind, I'm an idiot and didn't Google. But still - seems like there should be widespread reporting about trucks and planes dropping supplies. Maybe we'll get there. Ugh. Fuck Texas politics.

Edited by Week
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