US Politics: One No Trump

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

Funny, that's usually what I would have said. And I still agree.

If anyone feels like giving them a note of support, I think it's fine. I just shared a tweet by someone announcig they'd leave the GOP (while rolling my eyes. Really, THAT's what it took?!), so I'm probably a bit schizophrenic.

No, they are definitely NOT on our side

I get this and Kairparavel(sp) point.

For me that note of support or gratitude would be coming in the context that I know one must crawl, walk, before they can sprint. If they go in the right direction, a small nudge of encouragement costs me nothing.

They are like infants to train and corrective actions are usually always good to reinforce.

[Mindwalker]

Trending on twitter right now: #Trump2024  Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!

 

How to Channel your Impeachment Anger

The next election may be far off but there are things we can do right now to make Republicans pay a price for acquitting Trump

Mitch McConnell et al want to rub their disdain for the people’s will in your face in the hope that you will give up hope. If they can get away with anything, EVEN after losing an election, then perhaps it’s not worth staying involved. But if we disengage, they win.

This is a classic authoritarian tactic and we can’t let it happen.

https://messagebox.substack.com/p/how-to-channel-your-impeachment-anger

 

[DMC]

7 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I think where the fuck up was, and your link gets into it with the "walk/chew gum at the same time" stuff, is what the fuck was the rush to do the impeachment right now if they needed to rush it to focus on covid?  Just do the covid relief first, have an actual 9/11 style commission and hearings afterwards, and then have an actual impeachment.  

Well, if Pelosi and the House Dems didn't impeach immediately there would have been even more outrage - and it was important to impeach while Trump was still president.  As for delaying the Senate trial even longer, that too would have been met with objections from much of the same liberal base complaining now that the Dems are not taking the matter seriously enough/demonstrating the gravity of the situation.

Plus I'm not sure what the substantive difference is between delaying the trial until after passing covid relief and simply setting up a 9/11 commission after passing covid relief.  Especially considering with the latter the commission has full control over who to subpoena rather than the GOP forcing votes on whether to subpoena Pelosi, Harris, or gods know who.

On walking and chewing gum at the same time, this is a fair point.  However, it should be emphasized that if the Dems did persist with further witness testimony, not only would the Senate GOP force those votes on witnesses, but they also would do whatever they could on jamming up both Biden's nominations and the covid legislation.

Certainly right that it's a bad look they're now going on recess for a week, can't argue with that.  Which is why it was so stupid to call for a witness vote without anticipating what the GOP's response to such a move was gonna be in the first place.

[Ran]

I've seen the argument that the GOP could have basically shut down the Senate for weeks as they dragged out the witness deposition process, due to senate rules that basically allowed either party to insist on nothing but impeachment work being done unless otherwise agreed.

There's just four weeks until a bunch of people have their UI come to an end. This coming week will be spent by staff doing a lot of technical work with the parlimentarian on the reconciliation bill, so basically they have three working weeks to get reconciliation done. The Slate article is dead right that a commission is the right course. Whether Pelosi should have held off on delivering the impeachment to the Senate, I don't know... there's pros and cons.

In any case, he was never going to be convicted. That's simply a fact.

 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

There's just four weeks until a bunch of people have their UI come to an end.

Yeah, the Slate piece mentioned it but it should be noted here that this is absolutely why the Dems want to get covid done by mid-March at the latest.  And with all the hoops you gotta go through with reconciliation, that means they need a pretty clear schedule ASAP.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Since the Senate has proven to be so woefully inept at doing what needs to be done (checking a monstrosity), perhaps the state's can step to the plate and serve justice on this wretched figure?

This is Trump's heaping list of legal problems post-impeachment

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/13/politics/trump-legal-problems-post-impeachment/index.html

He has problems in NY, Fla, Georgia and DC that loom over his empire.

I will be resentful till he's bancrupt again, in prison or hopefully both. I hope he doesn't get a days rest for the rest of the sorry time he has left on this earth.

[Morpheus]

He is never going to jail and he has always had financial problems, his wealth is largely smoke and mirrors  based on loans and ripping off contractors. He has a lot of wealthy supporters, and some who are not so wealthy but will still part with what they can to donate to his legal funds or directly to his pockets.

Maybe I am a pessimist but I don’t anticipate justice, I only look forward to his death, hopefull following protracted and miserable illness and suffering.

[A True Kaniggit]

2 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

Maybe I am a pessimist but I don’t anticipate justice, I only look forward to his death, hopefully peceded by protracted and miserable illness and suffering.

Don’t get your hopes up.

I used to work in a Bone Marrow Transplant clinic. 
 

The nice patients were always the ones who died.

The assholes always recovered.

[Zorral]

He's never going to die.  Covid couldn't even kill this overweight ooze in somewhat human form.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Zorral said:

He's never going to die.  Covid couldn't even kill this overweight ooze in somewhat human form.

 

[Morpheus]

Hey, I know the genetic lottery seems to favor assholes, I want to throw a party (meaning: get drunk alone, but in a happy way)when Dick Cheney finally fucks off, but sometimes we get lucky, think of the horror in store for Rush Limbaugh.

[Fragile Bird]

A tweet someone posted also included a Valentine's Day tweet posted by Obama, posting a picture and expressing his love for his wife and daughters.

Yesterday I was at the grocery store and one of those rags, The Enquirer or the Star or something, had a front page cover story about the huge divorce coming, Michelle's gonna take him for everything he's got. The real story about how they hate each other! 

Of course, I think I saw the same headline every couple of months ever since 2008. Amazing how the suckers still want to believe. Kind of explains Trumpism.

[Mindwalker]

US Capitol Police officers issue vote of no confidence for acting chief, other top leaders

Members of the US Capitol Police issued a vote of no confidence in the force's top leaders more than a month after the January 6 riot at the Capitol left dozens of officers injured and led to the death of Officer Brian Sicknick.

Vote totals varied for each boss but each of the seven -- acting Chief Yoganada Pittman, two assistant chiefs, three deputy chiefs and a captain in the division that staffs the Capitol building -- were found not to have the confidence of rank-and-file officers, according to two sources who shared the vote totals with CNN. (...)

Officers have described turmoil to CNN, both on the day of the insurrection and in the weeks since. (...)

The move signifies USCP officers' deep frustrations with management and sends the loudest message officers can issue as a unified group.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/12/politics/capitol-police-no-confidence/index.htm

 

[GrimTuesday]

Haha sike, we're still supporting the Saudi lead genocide in Yemen.

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, GrimTuesday said:

Haha sike, we're still supporting the Saudi lead genocide in Yemen.

Uh, of course CENTCOM is still gonna support the Saudis for defensive purposes.  Are you new?  The question, as always, is what's meant by "defensive:"

Quote

But the administration has also made clear it will continue defending Saudi Arabia from attacks, including after one this past week at an airport near the kingdom’s border with Yemen that singed a civilian plane. And the Pentagon has previously characterized U.S. military support for Saudi Arabia, including intelligence sharing, as largely defensive.

The question at hand now is what the administration will consider offensive support versus defensive.

“That is the real question and from my understanding, it's still a live debate in the administration where they’re trying to figure out what the president's decision actually means in practice,” said one advocate familiar with the discussions. “From conversations I've had, it seems part of that is due to the fact that there's division within the government about basically how to define offensive and I think also what to consider in terms of past behavior by these actors.”

In Biden’s first visit to the State Department, he announced he would end U.S. support for a Saudi-led military coalition’s offensive operations against Yemen’s Houthi rebels, who the United States says receive weapons and other support from Iran. Biden also named as his special envoy to Yemen veteran diplomat Timothy Lenderking, who traveled to Saudi Arabia this past week to begin his push to end the war.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

It's not as if the Houthi rebels are some kind of good guys.

[GrimTuesday]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Uh, of course CENTCOM is still gonna support the Saudis for defensive purposes.  Are you new?  The question, as always, is what's meant by "defensive:"

 

I am very aware of how international relations works, but it doesn't change the fact that we're supporting a country that is committing genocide. Beyond that, defensive support is so fucking broad, it can mean basically anything. It is easy to make an argument that providing strike targets and other operational support for the Saudis is defensive using the same logic we used back in the cold war to halt Soviet influence around the world. Saudi Arabia's genocide in Yemen is a proxy war with Iran, so, it is not a leap to say that if Saudi Arabia allows the Houthis to prevail in Yemen, it has an negative impact on their national security and therefore any action taken is defensive. Saudi Arabia has to face consequences for what they have done, of course just like Israel we will never hold them to account, but hey, just think of all that sweet sweet oil.

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

It's not as if the Houthi rebels are some kind of good guys.

The Houthis aren't a state actor that is committing genocide with the tacit approval of the American government.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

I am very aware of how international relations works

Are you?  Because if you were you'd know we were never going to entirely abandon the Saudis - and never completely abandon intelligence efforts against the Iranian-backed elements among the Houthis.  You'd know the difference between America's posture under Trump as opposed to Biden's moves to provide humanitarian relief and halting Trump's $23 billion arms sale.  You'd understand that there's a shitload of nuance in this conflict, instead of jumping to conclusions with a stereotypically dumb "haha still supporting genocide" response to a damn CENTCOM statement.

If you wanna be cynical about mission creep and what "defensive" commonly means to the US MIC, nobody can rightfully blame you.  But maybe understand the steps Biden has already taken to provide a substantive difference.  And also maybe give Tim Lenderking more than like a week to try to make a difference.

[GrimTuesday]

52 minutes ago, DMC said:

Are you?  Because if you were you'd know we were never going to entirely abandon the Saudis - and never completely abandon intelligence efforts against the Iranian-backed elements among the Houthis.  You'd know the difference between America's posture under Trump as opposed to Biden's moves to provide humanitarian relief and halting Trump's $23 billion arms sale.  You'd understand that there's a shitload of nuance in this conflict, instead of jumping to conclusions with a stereotypically dumb "haha still supporting genocide" response to a damn CENTCOM statement.

If you wanna be cynical about mission creep and what "defensive" commonly means to the US MIC, nobody can rightfully blame you.  But maybe understand the steps Biden has already taken to provide a substantive difference.  And also maybe give Tim Lenderking more than like a week to try to make a difference.

I do understand all that, and frankly I think it is irrelevent. As far of foreign policy goes, I am a realist (probably more accurately a neorealist), I believe that the international system is full of rational actors who make calculated cost-benefit assessments based on what will allow them to maximize their power and secure their position within the international system. Within this theory, leadership is largely irrelevant when it comes to determining what actions a state will take, as the system is going to be what determines a states actions, so yeah, I don't think Biden is significantly different than Trump. The cost-benefit analysis remains the same regardless of who is in charge. Allowing the Iranians to establish a greater degree of influence in another country poses a threat to Saudi influence within the Middle East, and by extension American influence in the Middle East. As such, America is going to take steps to ensure that any threats to their security and position are contained and eliminated.

Of course, there are degrees of cruelty in war, and I think that is ultimately where the difference lies between the Trump and Biden administration. Trump was offering active support to the Saudis, directly supporting their military adventures. Unless they do something utterly surprising (not holding my breath) the Biden Administration will be offering more passive support to the Saudis that while they are not taking an active roll in the conflict, they are still ensuring Saudi Arabia's ability to continue the conflict.

I can both understand what is going on, while still taking issue with the outcomes.

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

As far of foreign policy goes, I am a realist (probably more accurately a neorealist)

Um, no, you really aren't.  Neither am I, but neither of us want to be anyway.  What you're saying is both Biden and Trump are realists.  Which is also inaccurate.  For both of them, actually.