The Return of Jon Snow

[Rondo]

He was wearing an ice armor and fighting the wights atop the wall.  In the dream, he was alone and fighting a losing battle.  This particular dream can be all true or partly true.  I'm not trying to prove anything.

The ice armor came from the Others.  He was awakened from death by the Others.  He was able to hold on to his mind because he warged his wolf.  Coldhands was also man of the nights' watch.  He had information to share but he chose to stay away.  The nights' watch and the wildlings would not take kindly to a dead man coming back to life.  All their experiences tell them the dead coming back will mean trouble.  Coldhands stayed away.  He was also accidentally brought back by the Others.  He kept his mind because he was also a warg.  Make note of how he took control of that elk.  A herd animal does not like being away from the others.  CH forced the poor animal to carry them to safety. 

The brothers of the watch and the wildlings will burn every walking dead they see.  It explains why Brynden Rivers, the Bloodraven, never tried to return to the wall.  Jon is not going to be accepted when he comes back.  He will be the lone wolf until death takes his body.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

Sorry but I think that you misquoting the dream

Quote

"Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared."

Ned's sword was also black Ice. Which means that he could even have a Valyrian blade and Lightbringer.

[Darth Sidious]

Jon will be the new Night’s King until his wightified form gives out.  He will get a second life in the direwolf.  

[Mad King Bolton]

I see Jon as Frodo.  I think he'll come back with help from Mel and fight the undead again which I know is popular theory.  I think in the end, he'll have to either die or return to the north where there's still magic in the world  like how Frodo left with the elves.  How and what happens in between I'm excited to read about but that's how I see it in broad strokes.

[Aebram]

I still think it's possible that Jon will survive the attack. Real-life people do sometimes survive multiple stab wounds. And if Melisandre is powerful enough to bring someone back from the dead, she's probably powerful enough to keep a wounded man from dying. She has said that she is more powerful than ever because of her proximity to the Wall; and John's connection to Ghost may also be helpful in some way to keep him alive.

Of course, for John to survive such a severe attack would be kind of a cliché, like all those action movies where the hero runs through a hail of bullets and doesn't get hit once. GRRM is famous for breaking clichés and sometimes killing the Good Guy. But he's done that so much, it's become kind of a cliché in itself.

I don't know the man or his work as well as some other members, but I wonder if he might pull a switcheroo in this case. He might let the Good Guy live, just as a surprise or a bit of a prank on his fans.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, Aebram said:

Of course, for John to survive such a severe attack would be kind of a cliché, like all those action movies where the hero runs through a hail of bullets and doesn't get hit once. GRRM is famous for breaking clichés and sometimes killing the Good Guy. But he's done that so much, it's become kind of a cliché in itself.

 

Honestly, he written himself into a corner where both the available options are cliché and predictable.

- Either he doesn't die, which as you pointed out is kinda cliché

- Or he does die. In this case given what we learned from the Varamyr POV, he won't really die but rather move inside Ghost, to be brought back at a later time. Due to how warging works, this would have minimal effect on him, which would gain be a bit cliché and defeat the purpose of GRRM subverting resurrection tropes hard with Beric and Stoneheart.

I actually think GRRM would have been better off to somehow write Jon breaking his vows, rather then getting into this mess.

[The Commentator]

Robb can’t come back as a useful wight.  Neither can Ned.  This isn’t Sleepy Hollow.  A headless wight isn’t of much use.  The dream is only a dream.  But the rest is true.  A dead man coming back to life will be seen as a threat.  
 

Parents will tell their children to come home before dark lest the Wight Wolf take them away.  The Wight Wolf wanders the Kingsroad at night looking for his dear Arya.  He takes away any child with dark hair and a long face.  Rumor has it this ghost slaughtered every man at the wall.  

 

[sifth]

9 hours ago, Aebram said:

I still think it's possible that Jon will survive the attack. Real-life people do sometimes survive multiple stab wounds. And if Melisandre is powerful enough to bring someone back from the dead, she's probably powerful enough to keep a wounded man from dying. She has said that she is more powerful than ever because of her proximity to the Wall; and John's connection to Ghost may also be helpful in some way to keep him alive.

Of course, for John to survive such a severe attack would be kind of a cliché, like all those action movies where the hero runs through a hail of bullets and doesn't get hit once. GRRM is famous for breaking clichés and sometimes killing the Good Guy. But he's done that so much, it's become kind of a cliché in itself.

I don't know the man or his work as well as some other members, but I wonder if he might pull a switcheroo in this case. He might let the Good Guy live, just as a surprise or a bit of a prank on his fans.

I mean GRRM does POV fake out deaths all the time, Davos alone has had 2 or 3 of them already. The closest we got to a POV dying in his/her own chapter is Cat and even that wasn't her "true" death, as revealed at the end of the book.

[The Commentator]

9 minutes ago, sifth said:

I mean GRRM does POV fake out deaths all the time, Davos alone has had 2 or 3 of them already. The closest we got to a POV dying in his/her own chapter is Cat and even that wasn't her "true" death, as revealed at the end of the book.

Sure, but that gets really old and repetitive.  This is an author who wants to be different and unique.  Beric and Cat already came back to life.  Drogo and Gregor sort of came back from the brink of death.  Better for the story to have Jon simply die and come back as a vengeful ghost who haunts Castle Black.

[sifth]

7 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Sure, but that gets really old and repetitive.  This is an author who wants to be different and unique.  Beric and Cat already came back to life.  Drogo and Gregor sort of came back from the brink of death.  Better for the story to have Jon simply die and come back as a vengeful ghost who haunts Castle Black.

I doubt he has the balls for that, it would be cool if he did, but I doubt he will

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

I doubt he has the balls for that, it would be cool if he did, but I doubt he will

Would be flushing a lot of foreshadowing and set up down the toilet.

[Universal Sword Donor]

12 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Would be flushing a lot of foreshadowing and set up down the toilet.

Yeah the whole chekhov's gun(s) he's set up kind of preclude that for me. I don't know if the knife wounds won't prove fatal or he'll be resurrected by Mel, but it's gonna be one of those two. His exit from the NW will be because they tried to kill him or because they did kill him.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

How can someone will need a resurrection when he isn't dead yet?  Jon isn't dead just yet, he is at least badly wounded. 

[sifth]

50 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Would be flushing a lot of foreshadowing and set up down the toilet.

That's why I said it would take balls. I've never seen an author do it before and I doubt GRRM will do it either.

[sifth]

16 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

How can someone will need a resurrection when he isn't dead yet?  Jon isn't dead just yet, he is at least badly wounded. 

He's in a sate of near death and has been since 2011. How/if he'll get better is the question.

[Moiraine Sedai]

Snow Wight is coming back but he will no longer be the same.  He won't be human.  Arya will be the only one to accept him.  It's a new take on the NK-NQ legend.  This time, a Stark female will be attracted to a corpse NK.  Arya and Jon will live as wife and husband at the wall.  

[chrisdaw]

It's symbolic of his personality when he returns. Where fire is passion, love and from the heart, ice is calculation, logic, and of the brain. Jon is coming back armoured all in ice, all warmth having fled from him, and so immune to the trappings of love. Or so it will appear, and if it is the case is the central question of his arc, and of the whole series really.

 

[Bowen Marsh]

Wight as a ghost he comes in the night to haunt the living.  Dammit, I should have torched Jon and sprinkled garlic on his ashes.  

[Egged]

 

11 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Sure, but that gets really old and repetitive.  This is an author who wants to be different and unique.  Beric and Cat already came back to life.  Drogo and Gregor sort of came back from the brink of death.  Better for the story to have Jon simply die and come back as a vengeful ghost who haunts Castle Black.

Wait till Khal Drogo returns for real!

[The Commentator]

On 2/15/2021 at 11:45 AM, sifth said:

I doubt he has the balls for that, it would be cool if he did, but I doubt he will

 

The show didn’t have the balls. George might.