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Lilac & Gooseberries

Foreshadowings about Jon Snow being the King.

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I am making a list with all the text foreshadowing about Jon ending as the king either of Westeros or the King in the North. Now can you help me complete the list?

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"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

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When Gilly entered, she went at once to her knees. Jon came around the table and drew her to her feet. "You don't need to kneel for me. That's just for kings."

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She rubbed away a tear angrily, the way Arya might have done it. “Will you help me?”

“Marriages and inheritance are matters for the king, my lady. I will write to Stannis on your behalf, but—”

Alys Karstark laughed, but it was the laughter of despair. “Write, but do not look for a reply. Stannis will be dead before he gets your message. My uncle will see to that.”

“Arnolf is rushing to Winterfell, ’tis true, but only so he might put his dagger in your king’s back... Lord Stannis is marching to a slaughter. So he cannot help me, and would not even if he could.” Alys knelt before him, clutching the black cloak. “You are my only hope, Lord Snow. In your father’s name, I beg you. Protect me.”

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“No.” He could hear the defeat in her voice. “Sorry to be of trouble, m’lord. I only … they said the king keeps people safe, and I thought …”

Damn her, he thought resentfully, and damn Sam twice for sending her to me. What did he think I could do for her? We’re here to fight wildlings, not save them.

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I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.

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He wants me gone, Catelyn thought wearily. Kings are not supposed to have mothers, it would seem, and I tell him things he does not want to hear.

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“That’s the real king of this castle right there, older than sin and twice as mean... One time the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robert laughed so hard he was like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.”

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But they were all dead now, even Arya, everyone but her half-brother, Jon. Some nights she heard talk of him, in the taverns and brothels of the Ragman’s Harbor. The Black Bastard of the Wall, one man had called him.

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I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow.

She knows who he is, She sees things in her fires.

Arya he thought, hoping it was so. Ashes and cinders.

Kings and dragons.

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"King," croaked the raven. The bird flapped across the solar to land on Mormont's shoulder. "King," IT said again, strutting back and forth.

"He likes that word," Jon said, smiling.

"An easy word to say. An easy word to like."

"King," the bird said again.

"I think he means for you to have a crown, my lord."

"The realm has three kings already, and that's two too many for my liking." Mormont stroked the raven under the beak with a finger, but all the while HIS eyes never left Jon Snow

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"You have my word, Lord Snow. I will be a proper wildling princess for your queen.".

This one works both ways. Jon being the King and Val being his end game spouse.

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"Allow me to give my lord one last piece of counsel," the old man had said, "the same counsel that I once gave my brother when we parted for the last time. He was three-and-thirty when the Great Council chose him to mount the Iron Throne."

Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.

It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born.

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"Jon laughed, laughed like a drunk or a madman, and his men laughed with him. "

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He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

Second one is from Barristan's PoV and he had served 3 or rather 4 Kings and Queens.

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"Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?"

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“Marriages and inheritance are matters for the king,

“Your father is a castellan, not a lord. And a castellan has no right to make marriage pacts.”

And this marriage is mine own work, after all.

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“Why aren’t you down in the yard?” Arya asked him.

He gave her a half smile. “Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes,” he said. “Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords.”

That is also a very funny one. A bastard Joffrey isn't allowed to touch the Royal  family Jon.

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Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king.

 

Of course discussions about the quotes are encouraged but please, please let’s not turn the thread in a Stark hate vs Stark fan thread. Let’s talk about the books based on the books themselves.

Thank you.

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A few of these I don’t get but there really are a lot of hints! Almost to the point of making me wonder if they are clues or herrings <_<

 

Nice compilation!

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Quote

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

That line almost makes it sound like he knows Jon is Rhaegar/Lyanna's child. Just missing a wink, a grin and an elbow nudge :D

I think Jon will likely be King in the North for a time through Stannis' orders, and then King Beyond the Wall (most likely in the epilogue, if ever on page).

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Tyrion Lannister had claimed that most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it, but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life—however long that might be—he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him.

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When the dreams took him, he found himself back home once more, splashing in the hot pools beneath a huge white weirwood that had his father's face. Ygritte was with him, laughing at him, shedding her skins till she was naked as her name day, trying to kiss him, but he couldn't, not with his father watching. He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. I will not father a bastard, he told her. I will not. I will not. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered, her skin dissolving in the hot water, the flesh beneath sloughing off her bones until only skull and skeleton remained, and the pool bubbled thick and red.

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Robb had become a hero king; if Jon was remembered at all, it would be as a turncloak, an oathbreaker, and a murderer. He was glad that Lord Eddard was not alive to see his shame. I should have stayed in that cave with Ygritte. If there was a life beyond this one, he hoped to tell her that.

 

Edited by Egged

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20 minutes ago, Egged said:

That line almost makes it sound like he knows Jon is Rhaegar/Lyanna's child. Just missing a wink, a grin and an elbow nudge :D

I think Jon will likely be King in the North for a time through Stannis' orders, and then King Beyond the Wall (most likely in the epilogue, if ever on page).

Stannis will give him the Throne in the North especially when he considers Robb an usurper? I do think that at the end Jon will have a connection to the Free Folk. But this will be done through his spouse, Val.

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On 2/14/2021 at 11:08 PM, Sigella said:

A few of these I don’t get but there really are a lot of hints! Almost to the point of making me wonder if they are clues or herrings <_<

 

Nice compilation!

Which one you don't get? I could explain it if you want. :D

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On 2/14/2021 at 6:52 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Stannis will give him the Throne in the North especially when he considers Robb an usurper? I do think that at the end Jon will have a connection to the Free Folk. But this will be done through his spouse, Val.

Yeah I should have said Warden of the north, not King.

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2 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Which one you don't get? I could explain it if you want. :D

”Different roads leads to the same castle”

The part about Balerion the cat.

Arya hearing about the black bastard on the Wall.

”Jon laugjed ad a madman and his men laughed with him”

 

Maybe I’m being thick :D 

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The word king gets attached to Jon throughout and you have a pretty exhaustive list here.  I don't know that it necessarily follows that he will be King of the 7 Kingdoms, King of the north or king of anything.  While some of these quotes seem to hint at Jon's parentage (your first for example), I think he's a something of a king already.  Jorah's bird and his 'corn corn corn' chirping provide the other piece (he also  has a brother names Barleycorn iirc), Jon is the cornking.  Whether that forshadows just his eventual rebirth or something more that will come along with (no, not beer) remains to be seen, but I am skeptical that it means he will ever sit the iron throne. Perhaps Jon will be a part of the correction of the seasons, perhaps his death and rebirth will have something to do with either the continuation of or ending of whatever cycle the Others and the Long Nights are a part of... I don't know.  My main point is that Jon may fulfill this corn king role without actually ever getting crowned by anyone.

I should add here as well that I am a believer that dumb and dumber told it true when they said that GRRM told them that Bran was the guy who would be sitting on the iron throne when the story's done.  Of course that doesn't mean that Jon couldn't hold it for a while, and it doesn't mean that George didn't feed them a line or change his mind in the (great number of) years since. But in my mind all of these Jon/ king associations have to be squared with the fact that he wont be king, so there needs to be either another definition of the role of king or... maybe Bran wears his skin in court because he's stuck under a tree?  I dunno...  

All of this being said, I can't help but hope he just fed them a line.

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

”Different roads leads to the same castle”

At this time Arya was going to KL and Jon tells her that. This could be a foreshadowing that after Jon has his own journey, hero journey, he will end up in KL.

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

The part about Balerion the cat.

Arya hearing about the black bastard on the Wall.

Those two are a two part one. Balerion is called a black bastard and the real King in the castle. Arya miles and miles away in Braavos hears people calling Jon the Black bastard. This could be a foreshadowing of Jon, the Black Bastard, being the real King of the castle.

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

”Jon laugjed ad a madman and his men laughed with him”

This one is with also two parts one with the next quote that comes from Barristan

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He had spent the best part of his own life obeying the commands of drunkards and madmen.

The Kings Barristan has served were madmen and drunkards.

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1 hour ago, Sigella said:

The part about Balerion the cat.

Arya hearing about the black bastard on the Wall.

This two are meant to be read together.

 

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”Jon laugjed ad a madman and his men laughed with him”

As is this one and the one below it.

 

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”Different roads leads to the same castle”

This one I didn't get tho.

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1 minute ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

At this time Arya was going to KL and Jon tells her that. This could be a foreshadowing that after Jon has his own journey, hero journey, he will end up in KL.

Ohhh

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9 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

At this time Arya was going to KL and Jon tells her that. This could be a foreshadowing that after Jon has his own journey, hero journey, he will end up in KL.

Those two are a two part one. Balerion is called a black bastard and the real King in the castle. Arya miles and miles away in Braavos hears people calling Jon the Black bastard. This could be a foreshadowing of Jon, the Black Bastard, being the real King of the castle.

This one is with also two parts one with the next quote that comes from Barristan

The Kings Barristan has served were madmen and drunkards.

Ok, I see.

Don’t know if the drunkard and madmen holds water but the rest certainly do.

The black bastard is a very good one.

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On 2/15/2021 at 1:52 AM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Stannis will give him the Throne in the North especially when he considers Robb an usurper? I do think that at the end Jon will have a connection to the Free Folk. But this will be done through his spouse, Val.

I think that Stannis will make him Lord Paramount of the North, but then he either dies due to wounds, Others or Grand Northern Conspiracy, and the Northern Lords make Jonny King.

18 hours ago, Jay21 said:

All of this being said, I can't help but hope he just fed them a line.

Bran as King is a concept so dumb, no matter how well you write it, that I'm actually convinced GRRM was trolling them, seeing how shit the show got in Season 7, and deciding he wasn't going to spoil his ending on a piece of shit like that.

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43 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Bran as King is a concept so dumb, no matter how well you write it, that I'm actually convinced GRRM was trolling them, seeing how shit the show got in Season 7, and deciding he wasn't going to spoil his ending on a piece of shit like that.

That's a little stronger than I would have put it, but right now today I have to agree. King Bran looks like a bad idea. What bothers me is that the show wasn't worthy of the spoilers it released and it never drew the narrative lines between where they were and where they believed they had to go for the big payoff. They had their story and they had an ending and when they reached the end of the time that they had decided to spend on their story they hammered the ending on, regardless of how it fit.  Bran the Broken, Shireen the charred, even Jon's resurrection were all ham fisted and fat fingered.

I dunno, it would be nice to be told that they're wrong, mislead or outright deceitful.  Maybe they figured George will never finish so they can say and do whatever they want. Ultimately all we can do is wait (and wait) and speculate. 

It may be interesting to try OP's exercise on Bran.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I think that Stannis will make him Lord Paramount of the North, but then he either dies due to wounds, Others or Grand Northern Conspiracy, and the Northern Lords make Jonny King.

 

Grand Northern Conspiracy would be my favourite until the Great Council.

@Jay21 The only way I could see Bran having any role for the Kingdom at the end is if he is some type or overseer to keep an eye for the Others.

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36 minutes ago, Jay21 said:

That's a little stronger than I would have put it, but right now today I have to agree. King Bran looks like a bad idea. What bothers me is that the show wasn't worthy of the spoilers it released and it never drew the narrative lines between where they were and where they believed they had to go for the big payoff. They had their story and they had an ending and when they reached the end of the time that they had decided to spend on their story they hammered the ending on, regardless of how it fit.  Bran the Broken, Shireen the charred, even Jon's resurrection were all ham fisted and fat fingered.

Well, Shireen and Jon both could have worked with better writing. I can't see any universe where Bran being King makes sense thematically and emotionally. Sure, it could make sense narratively, with him being a mind controlling tree and all, but it would shatter most of the themes the story is heading for, and really, a monarchy under an omnipresent immortal magic entity is not what I'd call a happy ending. More what I'd call a dystopia.

I'd take any other potential King/Queen over him.

Stannis or Aegon? Please GRRM, I'd do anything for one of them to be King in the end.

Jon? Sure no problem.

Dany? Perfect, I'd even take her becoming the second coming of Maegor if it means not getting Bran.

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9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

mind controlling tree and all, but it would shatter most of the themes the story is heading for, and really, a monarchy under an omnipresent immortal magic entity is not what I'd call a happy ending. More what I'd call a dystopia.

Yeah, I'd call that dystopic too. Maybe some of the 3000 odd pages that we've yet to see will feature some significant changes for Bran. Maybe he'll learn something from Bloodraven's example and forswear the use of much of his power. Some people have speculated that Bran starts time travelling or something in that tree and is every Bran from the Builder to Ned's brother, maybe it works the other way and every Bran is Bran (he's Rey now?)  I don't see it myself, but if he's going to be named king at some point, he's got to become king like and right now he's about as far away from being a king as his tree is from Kingslanding.

In a vacuum I would say that my guess for Bran would be that he never leaves that tree and at best is some sort of councilor or spymaster for a distant king that he speaks to through ravens, but I have troubles getting past the quotes from Hempstead and the idiots that say King Bran the Broken (even sounds ridiculous really) was directly from George.  

As I said before I hope that you're right and I've just been duped.  Better that than waiting 15 odd years for an ending that isn't any better than the TV show's.

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7 minutes ago, Jay21 said:

In a vacuum I would say that my guess for Bran would be that he never leaves that tree and at best is some sort of councilor or spymaster for a distant king that he speaks to through ravens, but I have troubles getting past the quotes from Hempstead and the idiots that say King Bran the Broken (even sounds ridiculous really) was directly from George.  

My guess is that he is basically the Frodo of the story and retires to the Island of Faces.

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8 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I think that Stannis will make him Lord Paramount of the North, but then he either dies due to wounds, Others or Grand Northern Conspiracy, and the Northern Lords make Jonny King.

Rickon is on his way back. The Liddles, Manderly and Glover if not more than that know that Bran is alive. I doubt Jon will become king in the north or Warden of the North, but I think there was a strong foreshadowing of him acting as regent with the Artos Flint story that we got in his POV.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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Jon won't be king of Westeros.  The people will not accept an ice wight and Jon will come back as one.  What Jon will become is the alpha wolf of the Stark pack.  Jon, Arya, and Rickon will die and their souls will take refuge in the direwolves.  Jon will be the alpha of that pack. 

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