Gender and bathrooms

[Week]

As a human in the 21st century, it's embarrassing that we need to devote as much real estate and energy to taking care of our liquid and solid waste. I demand stillsuits! Or something to end the cycle of this infernal digestion engine!

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Full stalls that go to the floor with proper locking doors helps, but in a deserted bathroom, one is still truly trapped. If a man walks into a women's room, he's immediately stared at and called out from across the room - actions that predators actively avoid. In a unisex restroom, a predator can get within a few feet of me in an empty restroom and at that point, it's too late. And that doesn't address PTSD and anxiety.

Again this rests on the presumption that only unisex bathrooms would be deserted and that people would be hyper active to call out any sort apparent trespass which would be met with no plausible reason for.

An ideal scenario and something I understand gives comfort to some women who’ve been victims of sexual abuse

But men can just say they’re waiting for their daughter for the reason for their presence there. Possible and most people will just leave to live out there day

And woman’s bathrooms can be empty save for one woman when a predator comes in who could presumably time his entrance when he knows there would be only one person there.  Making the bathrooms not really  be really any safer than most other places that see a predatory man alone with a woman alone. Whether that be in a office, a parking lot garage, or classroom. It simply becomes as dangerous or uncomfortable as the rest of a public could be for women in terms harassment, guys being creepy, or sexual assault.

To be clear I don’t want to diss the idea there is utility for safe spaces for women in some capacity.

[Theda Baratheon]

In terms of hygiene -

Public toilets will always be gross lol. They’re always going to be full of germs and what have you - but if the pandemic has drilled into us the importance of personal hygiene I hope they’ll be a little better - I usually did anyway but definitely going to make sure I always carry hand sanitisers everywhere with me  

[rotting sea cow]

People should also learn to wash their hands before going to the toilet. You don't want to touch your intimate parts with hands that have touched who knows what.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 hours ago, Leap said:

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but the only way around that is to wash your hands like 6 times, and don't tell me anyone does that.

No, but I would just say think about every step one takes in a public bathroom. You can't fix everything, but we could really mitigate some of it.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

18 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or, stand up bathrooms and sit down bathrooms. If adults are banned from children's bathrooms then that does not prevent older children behaving inappropriately. And if Adults are allowed in with an accompanying child then the creeps will find a way. There are enough creeps that are interested in being inappropriate to children of the same sex that it's questionable as to whether gender neutral bathrooms increases the risk substantially or marginally.

Floor to ceiling partitions between cubicles is a must, small gap under the door and larger gap above the door to allow for airflow is sufficient. Or better yet, venting fans in the ceiling for each cubicle and full enclosure, with an emergency access panel.

I always close the lid when flushing. Since we have a single space with toilet, shower and other daily sanitary activities, like brushing teeth, I really don't want to be coating my toothbrush with "bioaerosols". I am not certain everyone in my household is so vigilant. 

I think a small and I mean small gap at the bottom, just big enough to pass toilet roll or tampons to someone in need is very much worth having in public toilets.

[rotting sea cow]

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Seriously? I already have dermatitis from washing my hands so damn much.

Not going to even consider adding “*before* you wipe the poop” to that list. After is a given, obviously, but IMO, before is sh1t.

Is there no Spaniard in the forum to explain the reference?

But forget the pandemic for a second that has forced us to wash our hands more than usual and consider this: You have been having a busy day, shaking hands with dozens of people, going up and down the shooping streets, touching hand rails, elevators buttons and who knows what else. Now you feel the urge to go to the toilet for a piss. Are you telling me you are going to touch yourself down there without washing your hands first?

 

 

[Lollygag]

12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Again this rests on the presumption that only unisex bathrooms would be deserted and that people would be hyper active to call out any sort apparent trespass which would be met with no plausible reason for.

An ideal scenario and something I understand gives comfort to some women who’ve been victims of sexual abuse

But men can just say they’re waiting for their daughter for the reason for their presence there. Possible and most people will just leave to live out there day

And woman’s bathrooms can be empty save for one woman when a predator comes in who could presumably time his entrance when he knows there would be only one person there.  Making the bathrooms not really  be really any safer than most other places that see a predatory man alone with a woman alone. Whether that be in a office, a parking lot garage, or classroom. It simply becomes as dangerous or uncomfortable as the rest of a public could be for women in terms harassment, guys being creepy, or sexual assault.

To be clear I don’t want to diss the idea there is utility for safe spaces for women in some capacity.

The thing with crime is odds and probabilities. Yes, people can do all sorts of things. The trick is making it easier or harder. There are no guarantees. This is something we all know and live by instinctively.

Anyone can break into your house at any time if they really want to. Your windows and doors won't stop anyone who's determined or clever. That you feel truly and absolutely safe in your own home is an illusion. If we take your point and put it into action, we should all keep our windows and doors wide open whenever weather allows, because people can get in whenever they want anyhow.

But we don't do that. We lock the windows and doors which only offer minimal protection if we're honest because we know how human behavior works: crime is often about ease and opportunity. Statistics. Make things more difficult and increase the odds of getting caught, and those with a predator mentality will move on to easier prey.

Let me underscore this: predators like *easy* prey.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

10 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

People should also learn to wash their hands before going to the toilet. You don't want to touch your intimate parts with hands that have touched who knows what.

The only intimate part anyone should be touching while micturating or defecating is the penis, since there should always be a few layers of toilet paper between your hands and the anus or vagina, and the the only part of the penis you should be touching is the skin, which is less calloused than your hands but it is skin nonetheless and thus no more prone to infection than anywhere else. The commensal flora and the skin environment should prevent anything untoward happening with any potentially harmful bacteria that you might transfer to your penis. And you ain't gonna get COVID, or a cold or the 'flu that way. The healthy skin is highly effective at resisting and preventing infection. If you don't have healthy skin on the penis, then that is a whole different sort of problem that really should get checked out.

[Starkess]

I don't really like multiuser unisex bathrooms. They make me feel very tense. No problem with single-user unisex bathrooms in theory, but in practice I prefer the women's-only bathroom (we have both at my office) because the unisex one is always a little grosser and dirtier. I know not everyone women's bathroom is a pristine sanctuary, but in my experience bathrooms used by men are usually dirtier, and I'm just not about that. (FWIW this has nothing to do with genitalia--I would hope in any scenario I am not seeing anyone else's genitals in the bathroom, and I'd likely feel uncomfortable with trans-men in a shared bathroom.)

I also hate sharing a bathroom with a romantic partner. My ex and I always had 2-bathroom apartments so we could split them. I'm in a 1-bathroom now and I have a hard time pooping when my partner is here, and I hate thinking about him being in there pooping. I dunno, poop is just not very nice to think about? I've never thought of that as body shaming. Everyone poops, yes, and everyone's poop is gross.

[Derfel Cadarn]

9 hours ago, Starkess said:

I don't really like multiuser unisex bathrooms. They make me feel very tense. No problem with single-user unisex bathrooms in theory, but in practice I prefer the women's-only bathroom (we have both at my office) because the unisex one is always a little grosser and dirtier. I know not everyone women's bathroom is a pristine sanctuary, but in my experience bathrooms used by men are usually dirtier, and I'm just not about that. (FWIW this has nothing to do with genitalia--I would hope in any scenario I am not seeing anyone else's genitals in the bathroom, and I'd likely feel uncomfortable with trans-men in a shared bathroom.)

I also hate sharing a bathroom with a romantic partner. My ex and I always had 2-bathroom apartments so we could split them. I'm in a 1-bathroom now and I have a hard time pooping when my partner is here, and I hate thinking about him being in there pooping. I dunno, poop is just not very nice to think about? I've never thought of that as body shaming. Everyone poops, yes, and everyone's poop is gross.

Lol if you ever have a kid, you’re in for an awakening. And not just the kid pissing and shitting (btw baby boys are known to piss in people’s faces while having a nappy change). Bathroom privacy in the house is a distant memory for me now.

Expect to share a toilet with partner and child, all three in at the same time when young kid getting a bath. When my toddler was newly crawling and my wife was out, I would put daughter in the (empty) bath while attending to my business because she was too young and too mobile for me to leave alone at that point).

[BigFatCoward]

47 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

 

Expect to share a toilet with partner and child, all three in at the same time when young kid getting a bath. When my toddler was newly crawling and my wife was out, I would put daughter in the (empty) bath while attending to my business because she was too young and too mobile for me to leave alone at that point).

My wife has a great photo of my daughter sat staring at me through the door of our en suite in the dark, so with the light coming through the bathroom door it looks like the poltergeist poster. 

[HoodedCrow]

I went to a coed college, in a coed section. We had unisex bathrooms and showers. The guys had an innovative swing door for the urinal. In three years, no incidents occurred. I think it made everyone more polite and people followed a knocking rule when getting a shower or taking a bath. You could wait until it was empty, if you cared to. We did meet people while brushing our teeth. Hookups were made, just not in the bathroom that I know of, because we had single dorm rooms. The non cooed sections were much more wild.

The same decent behavior occurred in shared housing later on. The only minor problem was hearing hookups, but que sera, sera. 

[Lollygag]

I'm going to push back hard on the "nothing bad happened" thing.

The whole point of Metoo was that women don't report assaults because they won't be believed, no consequences will result, reporting forces them to relive the trauma, etc.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

Quote

The Majority of Sexual Assaults Are Not Reported to the Police

Only 230 out of every 1,000 sexual assaults are reported to police. That means about 3 out of 4 go unreported.¹

• Individuals of college-age²
  • Female Students: 20% report
  • Female Non-Students: 32% report
• The elderly: 28% report³
• Members of the military: 43% of female victims and 10% of male victims reported.⁴

 

[Fury Resurrected]

3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I'm going to push back hard on the "nothing bad happened" thing.

The whole point of Metoo was that women don't report assaults because they won't be believed, no consequences will result, reporting forces them to relive the trauma, etc.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

 

I think what you are missing here (willfully, I think) is that sexual assaults by strangers and sexual assaults by people you know are very, very different. The vast majority of assaults are by people you know and are not in bathrooms and those are unreported. Victims are more likely to report a stranger than someone they know. The kinda of assaults you are characterizing as rampant in bathrooms are far more likely to be reported.

[Raja]

I'm not going to lie, when I read 'push back hard', I was expecting something of far more substance than the above.

[A True Kaniggit]

For the poop thing, does no one else keep a bottle of Febreeze next to their toilet? (My go to is Lavender)

Emergencies happen. If someone has to go while visiting, they gotta go. No need to shame them.

 

[Week]

52 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

For the poop thing, does no one else keep a bottle of Febreeze next to their toilet? (My go to is Lavender)

Emergencies happen. If someone has to go while visiting, they gotta go. No need to shame them.

 

Even better:

https://www.poopourri.com/products/original-citrus-refill?variant=19845262901345&gclid=Cj0KCQiApsiBBhCKARIsAN8o_4j17kh3o0bT0B522yX565u6Mmp3AaxnY7PL03tv_5UD30CgGVroONkaAoMqEALw_wcB

[Starkess]

16 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Lol if you ever have a kid, you’re in for an awakening. And not just the kid pissing and shitting (btw baby boys are known to piss in people’s faces while having a nappy change). Bathroom privacy in the house is a distant memory for me now.

Expect to share a toilet with partner and child, all three in at the same time when young kid getting a bath. When my toddler was newly crawling and my wife was out, I would put daughter in the (empty) bath while attending to my business because she was too young and too mobile for me to leave alone at that point).

Yeah kids are a hell no for me for this and many other reasons. I remember almost gagging in disgust when I learned that you had to squeegee out babies' boogers.

I just...bodily fluids aren't my fave.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

52 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Having been sexually assaulted, as many other people in this thread have statistically likely been, it was someone I knew, and not in a public bathroom. And it was a male. 
 

On a much happier note:

My lesbian bathroom sex in front of the mirrors at the sink at Gay Pride in Minneapolis at the Gay Nineties was 110% consensual and 10/10 would do again. She didn’t give me her name and I didn’t give her mine. But we gave each other a good time

I believe most people call it the Gay 90's. Anyway, as a straight man, I always found it to be a blast when a friend who did drag there would come to parties without changing.

The food is pretty good too, from what I remember.