McGuv19 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 ie, Robb, Balon, Joffrey, Renly, or Stannis, which of them did you hope would succeed and which do you think would be/would have been the best outcome for the realm at large? For me factors include the personal qualities of each king, what their cause was, and the positives and negatives of their success, both short and long term. For example, Renly was the most liked king among the smallfolk and imo would most likely have been able to restore peace the quickest had he won. However, if he ascended to the Iron Throne, in the long term this may create a problem, as it would set a dangerous precedent, with the heir seen as the most capable taking the throne rather than the oldest, which could create more succession wars in the future. Personally, the king who I supported the least is Balon, since he really should have learnt a rebellion was not the way to go back in Greyjoy’s rebellion, and also how he wanted to revive the Ironborn’s reaver culture and raid Westeros again is hardly sustainable. Also, to me he seems to make poor decisions, as he refused to attack Lannisport because Tywin was “too cunning by half”, which didn’t really make sense given that since he literally wants to secede from the 7K, he would definitely be on Tywin’s hit list regardless of attacking Lannisport or not, albeit near the bottom. Anyway, what are your 2 cents on this? Was Robb right to rebel? Should Renly have tried to jump the order of succession? And is there anyone on this forum who actually respects Balon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 None of them, monarchy is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Robb in hopes one day bran will be King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, McGuv19 said: And is there anyone on this forum who actually respects Balon? *Ahem* 1 hour ago, McGuv19 said: he wanted to revive the Ironborn’s reaver culture and raid Westeros again is hardly sustainable. First of all hes not reviving anything, reaveing culture has been steady all along. Just like in Dorne and the Reach. Raids arent a specific culture for one or two kingdoms, its the culture for 7 kingdoms Quote "I cannot return to Coldmoat empty-handed. They will say the Red Widow has lost her bite, that she was too weak to do justice, that she could not protect her smallfolk. You do not understand, ser." "I might." Better than you know. "I remember once some little lord in the stormlands took Ser Arlan into service, to help him fight some other little lord. When I asked the old man what they were fighting over, he said, 'Nothing, lad. It's just some pissing contest.' " Lady Rohanne gave him a shocked look, but could sustain it no more than half a heartbeat before it turned into a grin. "I have heard a thousand empty courtesies in my time, but you are the first knight who ever said pissing in my presence." Her freckled face went somber. "Those pissing contests are how lords judge one another's strength, and woe to any man who shows his weakness. Balon was cool, brave. He fell off the horse and got back on its commendable stuff. 300 years ago they knelt to the dragon and abandoned the old way in place of septons and maesters. No more dragons, time to stop 300 years of kneeling. Balon was a dick to his son and warred on noble Robb instead of asshole Tywin so I understand the hate, but in terms of land and castle grabs there was no more efficient ruler in the wars after Robert. (3 out of 5) 1 hour ago, McGuv19 said: Should Renly have tried to jump the order of succession? I mean, why not? Stannis is a tyrant who relishes in mass capitol punishment for pardonable offenses. My issue with him was his lethargy. Like he just allows Stannis to poach his Stormlords like he allows Robb to fight his war. Renly was useless. (5 out of 5) Stannis, tyrant that he is, is smart and able (also hes got a sense of humor so its always fun reading him) While Renlys watching tourneys his brothers fighting tooth and nail, for the crown that is actually his. (2 out of 5) Joff, another king whos got a sense of humor, is the absolute worst. I do however respect his court more then Renlys so I put him above his "uncle" thusly. (4 out of 5) 1 hour ago, McGuv19 said: Was Robb right to rebel? Um, ch'a. Kingslanding strangled his grandfather, burned his uncle and decapitated his father. With wicked cause and little warrant she captured his uncle and put his grandfather to siege while slaughtering and terrorizing his subjects. The young wolf firmly holds the title of the greatest king in the war, only out done by betrayal and murder (1 out of 5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Kingslanding strangled his grandfather, burned his uncle Other way around, but I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Stannis Baratheon, the One True King of Westeros, naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 joffrey, of course. the only obstacle to communism to take over the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Robb Stark had by far the most righteous cause. And why should the North remain in the fold? None of the other kingdoms see it as a valuable place, they just want the North to stay in the kingdoms as, what, an example? A principle? Honestly, it's why I also support Balon somewhat, but he shouldn't have gone after the North in his conquest. He should have been smart and realised that he and the North both wanted the same things and even if he didn't help the North, he should have gone after the Westerlands and the Reach instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, broken one said: joffrey, of course. the only obstacle to communism to take over the realm. Mire like the only hope communism has, him being such a tyrant as to destroy the very idea of monarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Mire like the only hope communism has, him being such a tyrant as to destroy the very idea of monarchy. good, tyrants paved the way for democracy. Shout with me - all for Joffrey! 2 hours ago, CamiloRP said: None of them, monarchy is bad. Do you think the rule of aristocracy would be better? I cannot see any other option than monarchy or oligarchy in the place and the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Quote It's done, Jon thought, they're breaking. The wildlings were running, throwing down their weapons, Hornfoot men and cave dwellers and Thenns in bronze scales, they were running. Mance was gone, someone was waving Harma's head on a pole, Tormund's lines had broken. Only the giants on their mammoths were holding, hairy islands in a red steel sea. The fires were leaping from tent to tent and some of the tall pines were going up as well. And through the smoke another wedge of armored riders came, on barded horses. Floating above them were the largest banners yet, royal standards as big as sheets; a yellow one with long pointed tongues that showed a flaming heart, and another like a sheet of beaten gold, with a black stag prancing and rippling in the wind. Robert, Jon thought for one mad moment, remembering poor Owen, but when the trumpets blew again and the knights charged, the name they cried was "Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 39 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Robb Stark had by far the most righteous cause. And why should the North remain in the fold? None of the other kingdoms see it as a valuable place, they just want the North to stay in the kingdoms as, what, an example? A principle? Honestly, it's why I also support Balon somewhat, but he shouldn't have gone after the North in his conquest. He should have been smart and realised that he and the North both wanted the same things and even if he didn't help the North, he should have gone after the Westerlands and the Reach instead. Mind you, I was confused as to why he went after the North; given his vengeful mindset, he could have gone after Seagard since Lord Jason killed his son Rodrik and Jason was away on campaign. He's like the killer from Friday the 13th V, who doesn't even bother going after the person who actually killed his son. At least the killer from the original Prom Night mostly stuck to the perpetrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I have always been and will always be loyal to the Targaryen children, Daenerys and Viserys. My obvious choice will be the weakest of the five. Whoever will make the restoration of the true Targaryen to the Iron Throne easier. I believe that person is Balon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: I have always been and will always be loyal to the Targaryen children, Daenerys and Viserys. My obvious choice will be the weakest of the five. Whoever will make the restoration of the true Targaryen to the Iron Throne easier. I believe that person is Balon. Wouldn't Robb be better for that (presuming he has a brain and goes for the Throne and not independence) given it'd mean that as long as Theon takes Winterfell, then Jon, a Targaryen, would be the heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I think I have to go with Stannis. By the laws of the 7K, he is Robert's heir. If Cersei hadn't brought down Ned Stark, the truth would have come out about her kids; and Stannis would be the obvious successor. Renly seems like a nice guy ... except for the part where he flouted the laws and decided to take the throne just because he could. He justified it by pointing out that Robert did the same thing; but I don't think the cases are parallel. It's true that Robert's rebellion was fueled partly by his anger. But the misrule of the Mad King had become clear to everyone by that time, so the rebellion had some justification. Stannis might not be an ideal king, but I think he could have done a decent job of it (and still might). Hugorfonics made that comment about him being "a tyrant who relishes in mass capitol punishment for pardonable offenses." Sorry, I don't recall that; when did it happen? Widowmaker811 mentioned the Targaryens, which is slightly off-topic since they didn't participate in the War of Five Kings. I admire his loyalty, but I wonder if they still have the right of it at this point? Robert took the throne by force; but again, the previous ruler was doing a pretty awful job. And Robert gave the realm 17 good years. How many years have to go by before a Targaryen resurgence can no longer be considered justice, and becomes just another uprising? Illyrio to the contrary, I doubt that Westeros was full of people who were secretly toasting House Targaryen and sewing dragon banners. Robb Stark's rebellion may have been justified by the misdeeds of Aerys; and he clearly had some support from his bannermen. But considering all the other turbulence in the realm, it might have been smarter for him to sit tight and see how things went for the other four Kings. What Aerys did to the Starks was clearly wrong. But the murder of three people doesn't really justify a rebellion, even if they are high lords. If the North had stayed out of the war, they probably would have come through it largely unscathed, and much more able to prepare for the coming Winter. Balon Greyjoy I might admire for his commitment to his people's traditions, but not for anything else. And I don't think there's anything at all admirable about Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King17 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Aebram said: I think I have to go with Stannis. By the laws of the 7K, he is Robert's heir. If Cersei hadn't brought down Ned Stark, the truth would have come out about her kids; and Stannis would be the obvious successor. Renly seems like a nice guy ... except for the part where he flouted the laws and decided to take the throne just because he could. He justified it by pointing out that Robert did the same thing; but I don't think the cases are parallel. It's true that Robert's rebellion was fueled partly by his anger. But the misrule of the Mad King had become clear to everyone by that time, so the rebellion had some justification. Stannis might not be an ideal king, but I think he could have done a decent job of it (and still might). Hugorfonics made that comment about him being "a tyrant who relishes in mass capitol punishment for pardonable offenses." Sorry, I don't recall that; when did it happen? Widowmaker811 mentioned the Targaryens, which is slightly off-topic since they didn't participate in the War of Five Kings. I admire his loyalty, but I wonder if they still have the right of it at this point? Robert took the throne by force; but again, the previous ruler was doing a pretty awful job. And Robert gave the realm 17 good years. How many years have to go by before a Targaryen resurgence can no longer be considered justice, and becomes just another uprising? Illyrio to the contrary, I doubt that Westeros was full of people who were secretly toasting House Targaryen and sewing dragon banners. Robb Stark's rebellion may have been justified by the misdeeds of Aerys; and he clearly had some support from his bannermen. But considering all the other turbulence in the realm, it might have been smarter for him to sit tight and see how things went for the other four Kings. What Aerys did to the Starks was clearly wrong. But the murder of three people doesn't really justify a rebellion, even if they are high lords. If the North had stayed out of the war, they probably would have come through it largely unscathed, and much more able to prepare for the coming Winter. Balon Greyjoy I might admire for his commitment to his people's traditions, but not for anything else. And I don't think there's anything at all admirable about Joffrey. Robb really should've taken the frey advice and basically sat out the war and joined or opposed the Victor depending on who it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephraim'sFruit Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 as a reader, Robb In real life id probably support whatever the current administration is so the Baratheon line with Joffrey having an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I support Queen Daenerys, so none of them. Usurpers all. Though I do have some sympathy for Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 58 minutes ago, King17 said: Robb really should've taken the frey advice and basically sat out the war and joined or opposed the Victor depending on who it was. You can blame the Greatjon for suggesting the whole "King in the North!" idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: You can blame the Greatjon for suggesting the whole "King in the North!" idea. That whole thing couldn't have been deliberate, right? Greatjon couldn't have been manipulating Robb the whole time, right? I mean for all we know the 'dungeon' he's kept in is a manse across the water and he's retired and left winter and war all behind... Naaahhhhh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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