US Politics: Ted Cruz - A Tale of two Snowflakes

[Xray the Enforcer]

9 hours ago, felice said:

I think the stage design has that beat.

 

I should not be surprised and yet....I am still surprised. That's some bold-ass Nazi shit from some bold-ass Nazis.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Heres a tweet that shows a side by side of the CPAC stage to the Nazi symbol.

https://twitter.com/AsherWhites/status/1365690010108915717?s=20

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Yeah, I have zero sympathy for people who take on debt and then start whining. I borrowed like hell to pay for my kid to go where he wanted to go, and knew every minute what I was signing up for.

This also is a slap in the face to people who saved diligently and scrimped on themselves and didn’t take on debt. Or who sent their kids to in-state schools rather than an Ivy because they didn’t want to take on debt.

You should have at least some sympathy. I brought this up before, I'm someone that skimped on some personal pleasures and was happy to work long hours to pay my debt off quickly. But everyone's situation is different which makes this all tricky. To me the question isn't "should their debt be forgiven?" but "why do they have so much debt in the first place?" 

[Week]

39 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You should have at least some sympathy. I brought this up before, I'm someone that skimped on some personal pleasures and was happy to work long hours to pay my debt off quickly. But everyone's situation is different which makes this all tricky. To me the question isn't "should their debt be forgiven?" but "why do they have so much debt in the first place?" 

Especially if, assuming the hypothesis is true, it would be an enormous boon to the economy and lower/middle-class. That would be worth it from a macro-perspective, despite misgivings on a micro-level.

[Altherion]

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You should have at least some sympathy. I brought this up before, I'm someone that skimped on some personal pleasures and was happy to work long hours to pay my debt off quickly. But everyone's situation is different which makes this all tricky. To me the question isn't "should their debt be forgiven?" but "why do they have so much debt in the first place?" 

The question of why do they have so much debt in the first place has a fairly uncontroversial set of answers. College tuition has risen much faster than inflation driven in part by easily available student loans. The common wisdom was (and mostly still is) that people with a college degree will, on average make more money than those without over the course of their lifetimes. This has led students (and to some extent parents) to believe that despite the high cost, college is a worthwhile investment. Of course, some people are not really well suited for college and drop out (thus ending up with a loan but no degree) and other get a degree either at a school that is not very good or in a field that does not pay well -- note the sneaky "on average" in the common wisdom! And of course there are the various edge cases of people who have health and/or family issues, people who just couldn't stand their chosen profession and so on and so forth.

The question of what to do about it is a whole lot more controversial. The idea of simply waving the debt away is only popular among a certain subset of Democrats, probably because it has a few immediately obvious problems. As far as I can tell, the Biden administration has decided to punt the issue to Congress which means that nothing will happen in the short term unless they can somehow stuff this into the reconciliation bill.

[Ormond]

2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Yeah, I have zero sympathy for people who take on debt and then start whining. I borrowed like hell to pay for my kid to go where he wanted to go, and knew every minute what I was signing up for.

This also is a slap in the face to people who saved diligently and scrimped on themselves and didn’t take on debt. Or who sent their kids to in-state schools rather than an Ivy because they didn’t want to take on debt.

Most of the debt problem has nothing to do with Ivy league schools. A very large % of the college debt problem is from working class and poor people who were encouraged to take on debt by for-profit schools, many of whom did not even finish their programs. The average person with a college debt problem is not some  overspending Ivy league graduate.   

[Zorral]

Why do they have so much debt?  Because it costs so much to go to college.  Also for a lot of disciplines, you can't just go to any college and be qualified for the chosen profession.  Librarianship, for instance.  Accredited library schools are not at 4 year colleges, for instance, but at large, highly regarded universities.  They are very expensive programs that involved ever more hands on expertise with ever more varieties of technology and devices. To start with, these aren't Bachelor degree programs, but graduate programs.  Most library students chose a specialty such as medical, legal, art, etc.  These are by definition, already, like law school, medical school, veterinary school, really expensive too.  BTW, it costs even more to qualify as a veterinarian than an M.D.   And there are specialties with that as well.

Do you know how much tuition alone is for the dental school at NYU?  My dentists teaches there -- as an adjunct.  So much talent at NYU as adjuncts!  He's all about staying up-to-date with the latest progress in the field at all levels, including what he doesn't do himself.  This is so he can guide the students, influence the method and what is taught according to his very exacting standards, and have first dibs at hiring the best and brightest for his practice.

So, you know, how are you going to find a vet for your beloved kitties or help for your rotten teeth without students taking on debt?  You could say, well, then, choose something that's cheap for accreditation.  Again, then, I ask, where will you find a vet or a dentist?

P.S.  My dentist and his crew are just THE BEST.  They are pricey, but they do such terrific work and they are genius at pain management, always shooting for 'painless.'

P.P.S Medical and dental school in Cuba is free for Cubans.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

4 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Yeah, I have zero sympathy for people who take on debt and then start whining.

 

16 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

And those are the people I do have sympathy for.

Liar! Stop it with the mind games!

[HoodedCrow]

Stop the loansharking. Let the people who want to pay through the nose do it( capitalism). Make it more clear what the consumer is paying for( tennis courts or what-have-you.)Have I.Q. contests between graduates. The very best way to get a graduate degree would be to obtain knowledge and interest in a specialty on your own...by research and reading. Find a professor that is interested in you being their assistant. Do that! Get a stipend for your labor. Continue with your studies. I’m probably out of date. I was recruited more than once, but I didn’t want or need it. 

[Zorral]

10 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

The very best way to get a graduate degree would be to obtain knowledge and interest in a specialty on your own...by research and reading.

So you want someone to perform dentistry on you who got all her execution from reading a book?  Or a pharmacist who got her expertise from reading a book?  Who never formally studied and practiced the techniques and was tested on them in real life?  You want a kid castrating you favorite puppy who knows how to do it from a book?

We already have internships -- and these the student PAYS for.  Sheesh, get into the real world out there.  Very few people are seeking higher education degrees in liberal education these days.  And ya, only people who can afford that elitism, as it is perceived now, are the ones who have legacy places at Ivy Leagues and so on.

But if you want to keep the hospitals and courts still populated with competent, talented people, they are going to come from the 'lower classes' at whom you're sneering.

[HoodedCrow]

Hyperbole,  Zorral. If I wanted to get into dentistry, I would start carving shapes out of chalk. I would read about dentition. I would make sure that I did well at school, and study up for qualifying exams. I might talk to my own dentist and ask questions. If I could not succeed at that, I would change my goals. I have been offered graduate positions. For me, it was not cost effective and if the prof had a book, I could happily read it. Perhaps for free. Some people do get payed in stipends and free classes. Is this quaint? 

[IheartIheartTesla]

I think Biden should start with $10000 debt relief (although it appears he is loath to do it via executive order). Like I mentioned before, dont want this to become ACA 2.0 where the already assumed losses in 2022 become far worse because of an unpopular idea. I think this initial amount can act as a test balloon, and wont be as unpopular as $50000 debt forgiveness

[HoodedCrow]

I do not sneer at class differences.

[HoodedCrow]

I do like Black Adder, and their is a lot of sneering!:)

[Zorral]

Ya, your family are exactly the sorts who evidently either can afford big debt for the credential or don't even need it for the credential.

But I know you don't want a radiology tech who learned to read the images from a book without any oversight by previously credentialed and experienced teachers (including those who are responsible for the veternarian practice's radiology).

Nor are you familiar with who are all the doctors and nurses in NYC hospitals.  They are the children and grandchildren of immigrants.  Most of the pharmacists are too.  Every doctor of every gender whom I've seen in the last 20 years is Asian -- Japanese, Korean, Indian, Chinese -- or Black -- from Africa, from the Antilles, from the USA -- or latino, from everywhere in the western hemisphere, including the USA.

I haven't had 'white' doctor since some dumb white girl who diagnosed me with something I did not have, and damned near killed me, some 30 years ago.

 

 

 

 

[maarsen]

6 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Heres a tweet that shows a side by side of the CPAC stage to the Nazi symbol.

https://twitter.com/AsherWhites/status/1365690010108915717?s=20

Knowing the level of intelligence of many of those in the Republican party, I keep getting the feeling that they are being pranked by someone on the inside. 

[HoodedCrow]

In my day, tuition was heavily subsidized. I had a small scholarship. Tuition cost 850$ a year! I went to a wonderful undergrad school and then a transition school and then a “ Canadian Ivy League “ all by merit and some public help. I could couch youngsters on how to strategize your effort. At some point, sweat equity was required. I was an avant-guarde GenX. I took interest classes, but most of it was focusing on getting the piece of paper that would qualify me for a high demand job. I’ve done a lot of different things. I’m sorry that the college system in the States is can be so corrupt, and harms many people.

I feel sick about the predatory practices. I reckon the best that I can do is validate.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

In my day

Your day and how education works was over loooooooooooooooooooooong ago.

Which is another reason the US doesn't have anywhere enough nurses and doctors. Or dental technicians: it's been living off the education of this profession provided by Eastern Europe for a very long time. I.e. immigrants.

[Martell Spy]

51 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Your day and how education works was over loooooooooooooooooooooong ago.

Which is another reason the US doesn't have anywhere enough nurses and doctors. Or dental technicians: it's been living off the education of this profession provided by Eastern Europe for a very long time. I.e. immigrants.

Especially general practice/family medicine. They all have to get in to a good-paying specialty to pay off the debts. It's been great for NPs though.

[Ormond]

There is a distinction being missed in this discussion. There is a reason people refer to "graduate or professional degrees." M.D., D.D.S., and L.L.D. may be "post-graduate degrees", but they are "professional". American universities do not generally have their medical schools, dental schools, and law schools organized as part of their "graduate schools" which give Ph.D.'s.  So when someone talks about a "graduate degree" they are often not thinking of physicians, dentists, or lawyers.