DireWolfSpirit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, larrytheimp said: There's a lot of chatter on twitter about how FEMA money is going to be used to pay all the exorbitant gas and electric bills in Texas. So ***if this is true***, a freak weather event that these companies were unprepared for is going to be a major financial windfall on the backs of taxpayers? Unfucking real considering what we all get from our government during times of crisis and who ends up just making money hand over fist. Pitchforks! Socialize your cronies losses and privatize their profits and bonuses. You and I will be bailing these companies and paying for their shitty private sector management, setting up their next round of profit skimming and price gouging. YEeeeeHaw it's TEXAS BABY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, larrytheimp said: There's a lot of chatter on twitter about how FEMA money is going to be used to pay all the exorbitant gas and electric bills in Texas. So ***if this is true***, a freak weather event that these companies were unprepared for is going to be a major financial windfall on the backs of taxpayers? Unfucking real considering what we all get from our government during times of crisis and who ends up just making money hand over fist. Pitchforks! This! When I heard the money would help people pay their bills the thought that crossed my mind was wtf? Texas doesn't want to be regulated by the federal government, power plants ignored warnings to winterize as recommended by the state's own report, and now US taxpayers across the country are going to bail out those corporations that just couldn't be bothered to do that work? It's a corporate bailout because no way will many people be able to pay the $16,000 bills (or more) I've been reading about, not a consumer bailout. So people won't get money to repair their damaged homes and feed themselves, they'll get money to bail out the power companies? People should be very, very angry about this in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Fragile Bird said: This! When I heard the money would help people pay their bills the thought that crossed my mind was wtf? Texas doesn't want to be regulated by the federal government, power plants ignored warnings to winterize as recommended by the state's own report, and now US taxpayers across the country are going to bail out those corporations that just couldn't be bothered to do that work? It's a corporate bailout because no way will many people be able to pay the $16,000 bills (or more) I've been reading about, not a consumer bailout. So people won't get money to repair their damaged homes and feed themselves, they'll get money to bail out the power companies? People should be very, very angry about this in the US. It's a really interesting model. Privatize profit, socialize risk. Works great for Texas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Karlbear said: It's a really interesting model. Privatize profit, socialize risk. Works great for Texas! The power companies should be forced to individually sue any person who doesn't pay their bill, the way capitalism works everywhere else. A helluva a lot of bills will get forgiven that way, I'm willing to bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Karlbear said: It's a really interesting model. Privatize profit, socialize risk. Works great for Texas! What works for Wallstreet works for Texas. So that business model is not particularly new - or unique to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 San Antonio Mayor piping mad over the notion of residents bailing out the privatized management- "It would be unconscionable for bills to go up and bills to be put on the backs of residents of the state that have been suffering and freezing in their homes for the last week through no fault of their own. This was a total failure by the state's energy management and they need to be held accountable and in doing so, certainly not put the cost of this crisis on the backs of Texans. You know, as far as I'm concerned that bill should be sent to ERCOT and there will be hell to pay if there is any notion that the residents of this state should pay for this disaster." eta: Looks like those boys better hope they had billions in insurance paid up to cover their incompetent corner cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: What works for Wallstreet works for Texas. So that business model is not particularly new - or unique to the US. Is that what governments do in Europe, fund consumers expecting them to pass the money to corporations in times of disaster? Can I have an example? My understanding of FEMA is that it helps rebuild infrastructure after disasters. It also does food aid to people. The idea that money would be paid to individuals who then pay it to corporations is ludicrous. The Federal government should step in and tell the power companies that they will get money to rebuild infrastructure and in return they will cancel power bills. I sure hope the new team is in place already at FEMA, and not the idiots who screwed Puerto Rico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Is that what governments do in Europe, fund consumers expecting them to pass the money to corporations in times of disaster? Can I have an example? My understanding of FEMA is that it helps rebuild infrastructure after disasters. It also does food aid to people. The idea that money would be paid to individuals who then pay it to corporations is ludicrous. The Federal government should step in and tell the power companies that they will get money to rebuild infrastructure and in return they will cancel power bills. I sure hope the new team is in place already at FEMA, and not the idiots who screwed Puerto Rico. In Europe (and even in most of the US), the power grid is not privatized, it’s public infrastructure like the roads. If we are paying to rebuild the grid with public funds- it’s gotta go public once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Fragile Bird said: Is that what governments do in Europe, fund consumers expecting them to pass the money to corporations in times of disaster? Can I have an example? My understanding of FEMA is that it helps rebuild infrastructure after disasters. It also does food aid to people. The idea that money would be paid to individuals who then pay it to corporations is ludicrous. The Federal government should step in and tell the power companies that they will get money to rebuild infrastructure and in return they will cancel power bills. I sure hope the new team is in place already at FEMA, and not the idiots who screwed Puerto Rico. It's not that open. But I was thinking of the bail outs big banks received after the financial crisis. Another example would be big pharma and how research works. The expensive part is research, and the ground work research in particular. That happens primarily at Universities/Colleges, who receive a big chunk of their funding from states. Then researchers set up a start up company, where they monetize the fruits of their (state funded) labor. Now big pharma comes along and buys (into) the most promising among those start ups. Leaving the costs for research that didn't go anywhere for the public. Want an example for that. Ask Pfizer about their (well, BionTech's) Corona vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Fury Resurrected said: In Europe (and even in most of the US), the power grid is not privatized, it’s public infrastructure like the roads. If we are paying to rebuild the grid with public funds- it’s gotta go public once again. I agree, but I don't think FEMA money is only given to public corporations. In fact, I think there were major scandals about the private companies that got money for rebuilding Puerto Rico, including one newly incorporated power company with no business history. Weren't they from Texas? Maybe not, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: It's not that open. But I was thinking of the bail outs big banks received after the financial crisis. Another example would be big pharma and how research works. The expensive part is research, and the ground work research in particular. That happens primarily at Universities/Colleges, who receive a big chunk of their funding from states. Then researchers set up a start up company, where they monetize the fruits of their (state funded) labor. Now big pharma comes along and buys (into) the most promising among those start ups. Leaving the costs for research that didn't go anywhere for the public. Want an example for that. Ask Pfizer about their (well, BionTech's) Corona vaccine. Not exactly equivalent cases. In the GFC the banks were forced by the government to borrow money which they were supposed to lend to get the financial system working again, but those loans were paid back. The car companies paid back their loans too. What goes on with research is pretty skanky, I agree, but once again, money is not going to consumers for them to pay corporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Not exactly equivalent cases. In the GFC the banks were forced by the government to borrow money which they were supposed to lend to get the financial system working again, but those loans were paid back. The car companies paid back their loans too. What goes on with research is pretty skanky, I agree, but once again, money is not going to consumers for them to pay corporations. How about Nuclear power and the disposal of nuclear waste, and insurance risks. Fun fact nuclear power plants are practically uninsurable. The premiums would make them pretty much unprofitable (if they were to be fully covered). In Germany the providers have an insurance police on them, that covers costs up to a certain point (250m € or so). Then all the energy providers have another funds, which covers around 2.25bn €. Now, if one of those happens to blow up, that wouldn't begin to cover the damages (estimates go up to 6 trillion €). Those costs would pretty much bankrupt any enegery provider. So who'd be on the hook for the damages? If you want a less hypothetical example. Ten years ago, Tepco has asked the Japanese state to bail them out, because they can't pay for the mess their Fukushima plant has caused (costs were around 86 bn at that point, excluding potential longterm damages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 2:02 PM, A True Kaniggit said: Here’s an update on the Saga of the neighbor’s Trump flag. He still has it up on it’s poll, but it no longer flies alone. He has put a “Not My President” flag above it. Pics or it didn’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 This crony capitalism with power grid is yet more evidence of why we are a oligarchy inching ever closer to a full blown plutocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Little known is that a psychiatrist aided and abetted Donald Trump’s presidency by vigorously silencing the warnings of mental health professionals and boosting the president’s ability to remain without accountability. Jeffrey Lieberman is that psychiatrist, and he has been seeking an important mental health position in the Biden administration, which portends danger for our country. https://hillreporter.com/commentary-trumpism-did-not-end-with-donald-trump-93641 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Martell Spy said: Anti-Trumpers are done with the GOP. Where do they go now? Scores of Republicans are bolting the party in the wake of the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. But they’re discovering there’s really no place to go. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/22/anti-trump-republicans-third-party-470783 If the split in the Republican party is as bad as they think it could be if Trump forms a party, it seems like a good time for the left to form their own party too. Get rid of this two party stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said: If the split in the Republican party is as bad as they think it could be if Trump forms a party, it seems like a good time for the left to form their own party too. Get rid of this two party stuff. Four parties in a single member plurality electoral system is a recipe for disaster - especially with such a polarized electorate. Not to mention, considering the composition of Trumpists to Anti-Trumpists to Establishment Dems to Leftists, that's a perfect way to maximize the Trumpists' officeholding potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 58 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: How about Nuclear power and the disposal of nuclear waste, and insurance risks. Fun fact nuclear power plants are practically uninsurable. The premiums would make them pretty much unprofitable (if they were to be fully covered). In Germany the providers have an insurance police on them, that covers costs up to a certain point (250m € or so). Then all the energy providers have another funds, which covers around 2.25bn €. Now, if one of those happens to blow up, that wouldn't begin to cover the damages (estimates go up to 6 trillion €). Those costs would pretty much bankrupt any enegery provider. So who'd be on the hook for the damages? If you want a less hypothetical example. Ten years ago, Tepco has asked the Japanese state to bail them out, because they can't pay for the mess their Fukushima plant has caused (costs were around 86 bn at that point, excluding potential longterm damages). Once again you miss my point. Did the Japanese government pay consumers who them paid the money to Tepco? And once again, different because the Japanese nuclear authorities approved the design of the plant. The issue is about FEMA support going to consumers in order to pay their bills to the power plants. It may very well be they completely skip the consumers and Texas just pays over money to the power authorities in various cities and counties who then pay the plants to cover the bills, but then who pays for the upgrades all the power plants need? More FEMA money? It will definitely be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, DMC said: Four parties in a single member plurality electoral system is a recipe for disaster - especially with such a polarized electorate. Not to mention, considering the composition of Trumpists to Anti-Trumpists to Establishment Dems to Leftists, that's a perfect way to maximize the Trumpists' officeholding potential. Proportional Rep for the win. Eliminate single member districts and dramatically increase the size of the House of Representatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Proportional Rep for the win. Eliminate single member districts and dramatically increase the size of the House of Representatives. Sure. But that's not going to happen. Although, we might see some crazy one-time stuff in 2022: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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