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Alyn Oakenfist

Jorah's story reeks of BS, or why he's even worse than we thought.

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So Jorah's story about Lynesse in ACOK seems a simple and shut case, right? He falls for Lynesse, she's dissatisfied, and he loves her too much to ever say no, getting into more and more debt trying to satisfy her, eventually losing it all at which point she up and dumps him, showing herself as a goldigger draining everything out of a poor guy. Case Closed.

But, wait, case unclosed. Let's look at how poor Jorah really was. Now sure, Bear Island is poor and has little revenue, but the same is not true about Jorah. The Tourney of the Hand had a prize of 40.000 gold dragons. And that wasn't that extravagant of a tourney. Tywin being Tywin and all of the nobility of Westeros being there, we can easily imagine that the prize for the Tourney of Lannisport was higher.

Then there's the dowry. The Hightowers are the second wealthiest House in Westeros, only behind the Lannisters. The dowry for a Hightower much be absolutely huge. So combining the prize money and the dowry, I think we can safely say that at the end of the whole thing Jorah had at the very least 100.000 gold dragons. That's insanely high. That kind of money would easily skyrocket the Mormonts to being one of the wealthiest houses in the North. And yet Jorah could barely afford a cook and a singer? There's something wrong here. So where did such an obscene fortune go? Jorah says, cooks, jewelry a singer and a ship. I say bullshit. There is one more expense however that might make sense.

Quote

It was as a tourney champion that I won her hand and heart, so I entered other tourneys for her sake. But the magic was gone. I never distinguished myself again. And each defeat meant the loss of another charger and another suit of jousting armor which must needs be ransomed and replaced. The cost could not be bourn.

Add to this, Jorah mentioning taking on debt and being "drunk on glory" after Lannisport and am I the only one for whom this sounds like a gambling addiction? The same quest for the high of victory and investing over and over again into that theoretical victory only to get loss after loss.

So, the cause for Jorah's loss of fortune and debt wasn't his wife, but his own toxic behavior. And this also serves to recontextualize Lynesse.

This is another place where Jorah's story reeks of bs. The South, we know is heavily prejudiced against the North, and yet Lynesse was surprised that Bear Isle was a shithole? However, when looking at it again, maybe it wasn't that. Maybe the cause of Lynesse's misery was Jorah being away at tourneys slowly losing his fortune, all while claiming to do it out of love for her. Also keep in mind, Lynesse was 15, just imagine it, realizing your knight in shiny armor is a gambling addict who often abandons you but still professes his love for you. No shit she was miserable.

But now, let's look at another piece of bullshit from Jorah, as he tells us his final desperate acts.

Quote

We toured the Free Cities?

Why? So if Lynesse hates Bear Island, why not visit Lannisport or Oldtown, you know, the closer locations, one of them being Lynesse's bloody home town. It doesn't add up, right? Until you realize another weird thing about Jorah's inconsistent backstory. His complex knowledge of slavery. Just look at the way he knows everything there is to know about Astapor. Does this man look like someone with no knowledge of slavery. Sure he claims the poachers were his first, but why should we believe him. The level of knowledge he posses seems to indicate the poachers were far from his first slaves. And I think this explains the tour of the Free Cities. Jorah wasn't visiting the Free Cities, he was selling slaves there. Which also explains how Ned found out about the slaving. It wasn't three blokes being sold into slavery, it was a slavery network.

And finally coming back to Lynesse, with her husband using an apparent romantic honeymoon to sell slaves, and finally losing everything he had because of that, becoming a sellsword and abandoning her for moths at a time, can we really blame her for dropping this guy? I mean at least with the new guy, she's manage to rise back up from the gutter and be in a position to actually help her family fight Euron. Good for her.

And when you think about it, it figures. Providence gave Jorah two golden chances, the first with Lynesse, and the second with Dany, both girls way younger than him that he tried to groom, and in both cases he was granted incredible luck and opportunity, only to squander it all away with his toxic behavior. This guy does not deserve a third chance. Dany got lucky that she managed to get rid of him when she did. Sure Barristan, Darrio, Shaznak, Reznak and the Green Grace are not the best advisors in the world and many have a selfish agenda, but at least they are not a creepy old guy, trying to groom her and remove all her other advisors and friends.

So, is Jorah worse than we're led to assume?

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There’s a LOT of speculation in this post, but Jorah’s sketchy enough that I wouldn’t doubt it.

Honestly, I never thought that the Lynesse-Jorah marriage made any sense at all. I don’t care how heroic Jorah was, he was still head of one of the smallest houses in the North, and he wasn’t a worshipper of the Seven. How did Lord Hightower ever think that match would work???

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Yes. In medieval Europe, tourney horses and armour was far more costly than cooks and ladies jewelery. And every tourney horse that was lamed, every piece of armor that was dented or broken, would need to be repaired or replaced.

I think the tourney at Lannisport was fixed. That the favor on Mormont's arm was a sign of who Lord Tywin wished to win the tournament. I think Lynesse was in some way damaged goods that needed to be married off and shipped away from the South as soon as possible. And there was some strategic interest in the case for Tywin. Jorah was single, titled, and out of the way enough to be the man, and Lynesse had to shut up and put up.

Women had as much agency as their husbands allowed. If they made earnings, their husband could take them. If they had assets, their husbands could sell them. The reverse was not true. Jorah can say he did it all for her, but the money, and his behaviour, suggests that he is the one that is racking up the debts, and that he left his wife with one tenth of the funds she needed to pay off the debts he left behind him in Lys. He went not to the disputed lands to fight with a free company, but to the Rhoyne to trade flesh for Volantis with Dothraki and pirates, fighting against the anti-slavery Braavosi.

The merchant prince Tregar Ormollen purchased Jorah's debt and was therefore able to take his wife as a slave, and everything he left behind him in Lys. He was also entitled to take Jorah, and the sword on his back. But it seems Tregar cut a deal that allowed Jorah to own his sword and come to Volantis a free man.

There he rejoined the Dothraki and resumed his slave trading. He made some money, but never seemed to have considered paying for his wife's freedom. Remember his remark to Dany after the battle at Mirri Maz Duur's villiage?

Quote

“I’ve told the khal he ought to make for Meereen,” Ser Jorah said. “They’ll pay a better price than he’d get from a slaving caravan. Illyrio writes that they had a plague last year, so the brothels are paying double for healthy young girls, and triple for boys under ten. If enough children survive the journey, the gold will buy us all the ships we need, and hire men to sail them.”

(AGoT Ch 61 Daenerys VII)

Yipee. Maybe his slaving ventures always ended up being borderline. But that was how he escaped debt in Lys. By selling his wife into sex-slavery in exchange for his skin and his sword, and maybe even a loan for a horse, so he could resume his trade as a slaver.

Lynesse seems content with the change. Or so I infer by her brother Humphrey visiting her in Lys in the hope of raising a navy of sellsails. Which is admittedly an extravagant purchase. The Hightowers seem to be wealthy enough to pay for them, for now. Perhaps they intend to lease them from Ormellon. If so, it would be a loan arrangement between the men, for the services of other men. Hopefully the deal won't bankrupt the Hightowers or Ormellon, but if it did, it would not be because Lynesse had provided the introductions. Or even because she had begged Ormellon to invest in her family and he could refuse her nothing.

If we look at the way he treats Dany, especially when we compare it to Barristan, he is not really respectful. When she displeases him he calls her a little fool. Most of the time, he is grooming her.

He is telling her what to do (eg. Go to Astapor and use Illyrio's ships to buy slave soldiers that Jorah can use to protect himself from Illyrio's displeasure and to sell, along with his tame princess-slave and three dragons.)

He is always disconcerted when she does her own thing - especially at the slave city of Yunkai, where she attacked while the Second Sons were drinking, trusted Daario to bring the Stormcrows to her side, which was pivotal to their victory.

I really think that he knew Mero from his slaving days on the Rhoyne, and allowed him to escape. He might even have known that Mero was going to attempt to assassinate her. It seems mighty suspicious to me that his first words on hearing about the attempt to kill "his Queen" is a long narrow look at Barristan and

Quote

“A squire with a stick slew Mero of Braavos, is that the way of it?”

 (ASoS Ch 57 Daenerys V)

Also

Quote

“I saw no need to frighten you, Your Grace. I have offered a reward for his head—”

(ASoS Ch 57 Daenerys V) does not seem to be an adequate reason for failing to tell Dany that Mero had escaped him.

At the time he was complaining to her that Meereen was too well defended to besiege, and they should take their huge slave caravan up the dragon road and leave his former customers in strength behind them.

He left Daenerys on foot, but he has a horse and coin when he meets Tyrion. My guess is that he walked into the hinterlands where he met up with his old mucker Khal Jhaqo's outriders, got a horse and made his way back across the Dothraki Sea to Khal Pono, who was glad enough to have him help drive Motho and Zekko north into the forest of Qohor, while taking their slaves and horses. He could then assist in the negotiations with the civic heads of Selhorys on the price of peace, before heading off to a brothel where he could indulge in his fantasy - the Last Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, as a sex slave. His slave. 

Edited by Walda

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53 minutes ago, Walda said:

before heading off to a brothel where he could indulge in his fantasy - the Last Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, as a sex slave. His slave. 

A disturbingly creepy but accurate portrayal of a Littlefinger level creep.

Actually scratch that, he's worse than LF in that regard. If Jorah and Dany were in the same position as LF and Sansa I shudder to think what he would have done.

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6 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

A disturbingly creepy but accurate portrayal of a Littlefinger level creep.

Actually scratch that, he's worse than LF in that regard. If Jorah and Dany were in the same position as LF and Sansa I shudder to think what he would have done.

Jorah ain't that smart. He's had no idea of what he's going to do when he gets back to Westeros, his aunt Maege isn't going to just step aside and allow him back to be lord.

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4 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So Jorah's story about Lynesse in ACOK seems a simple and shut case, right? He falls for Lynesse, she's dissatisfied, and he loves her too much to ever say no, getting into more and more debt trying to satisfy her, eventually losing it all at which point she up and dumps him, showing herself as a goldigger draining everything out of a poor guy. Case Closed.

But, wait, case unclosed. Let's look at how poor Jorah really was. Now sure, Bear Island is poor and has little revenue, but the same is not true about Jorah. The Tourney of the Hand had a prize of 40.000 gold dragons. And that wasn't that extravagant of a tourney. Tywin being Tywin and all of the nobility of Westeros being there, we can easily imagine that the prize for the Tourney of Lannisport was higher.

Then there's the dowry. The Hightowers are the second wealthiest House in Westeros, only behind the Lannisters. The dowry for a Hightower much be absolutely huge. So combining the prize money and the dowry, I think we can safely say that at the end of the whole thing Jorah had at the very least 100.000 gold dragons. That's insanely high. That kind of money would easily skyrocket the Mormonts to being one of the wealthiest houses in the North.

IDK, George didn't know how Gold Dragons worked in the early books, Anguy drinks away 10k in a few days, that shouldn't be possible.

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Not a fan of the hairy dude, but I think it's rather author's mistake, maybe GRRM omitted the dowry /  did not bother to count (?)

Edited by broken one

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3 hours ago, Walda said:

Yes. In medieval Europe, tourney horses and armour was far more costly than cooks and ladies jewelery. And every tourney horse that was lamed, every piece of armor that was dented or broken, would need to be repaired or replaced.

I think the tourney at Lannisport was fixed. That the favor on Mormont's arm was a sign of who Lord Tywin wished to win the tournament. I think Lynesse was in some way damaged goods that needed to be married off and shipped away from the South as soon as possible. And there was some strategic interest in the case for Tywin. Jorah was single, titled, and out of the way enough to be the man, and Lynesse had to shut up and put up.

Women had as much agency as their husbands allowed. If they made earnings, their husband could take them. If they had assets, their husbands could sell them. The reverse was not true. Jorah can say he did it all for her, but the money, and his behaviour, suggests that he is the one that is racking up the debts, and that he left his wife with one tenth of the funds she needed to pay off the debts he left behind him in Lys. He went not to the disputed lands to fight with a free company, but to the Rhoyne to trade flesh for Volantis with Dothraki and pirates, fighting against the anti-slavery Braavosi.

The merchant prince Tregar Ormollen purchased Jorah's debt and was therefore able to take his wife as a slave, and everything he left behind him in Lys. He was also entitled to take Jorah, and the sword on his back. But it seems Tregar cut a deal that allowed Jorah to own his sword and come to Volantis a free man.

There he rejoined the Dothraki and resumed his slave trading. He made some money, but never seemed to have considered paying for his wife's freedom. Remember his remark to Dany after the battle at Mirri Maz Duur's villiage?

(AGoT Ch 61 Daenerys VII)

Yipee. Maybe his slaving ventures always ended up being borderline. But that was how he escaped debt in Lys. By selling his wife into sex-slavery in exchange for his skin and his sword, and maybe even a loan for a horse, so he could resume his trade as a slaver.

Lynesse seems content with the change. Or so I infer by her brother Humphrey visiting her in Lys in the hope of raising a navy of sellsails. Which is admittedly an extravagant purchase. The Hightowers seem to be wealthy enough to pay for them, for now. Perhaps they intend to lease them from Ormellon. If so, it would be a loan arrangement between the men, for the services of other men. Hopefully the deal won't bankrupt the Hightowers or Ormellon, but if it did, it would not be because Lynesse had provided the introductions. Or even because she had begged Ormellon to invest in her family and he could refuse her nothing.

If we look at the way he treats Dany, especially when we compare it to Barristan, he is not really respectful. When she displeases him he calls her a little fool. Most of the time, he is grooming her.

He is telling her what to do (eg. Go to Astapor and use Illyrio's ships to buy slave soldiers that Jorah can use to protect himself from Illyrio's displeasure and to sell, along with his tame princess-slave and three dragons.)

He is always disconcerted when she does her own thing - especially at the slave city of Yunkai, where she attacked while the Second Sons were drinking, trusted Daario to bring the Stormcrows to her side, which was pivotal to their victory.

I really think that he knew Mero from his slaving days on the Rhoyne, and allowed him to escape. He might even have known that Mero was going to attempt to assassinate her. It seems mighty suspicious to me that his first words on hearing about the attempt to kill "his Queen" is a long narrow look at Barristan and

 (ASoS Ch 57 Daenerys V)

Also

(ASoS Ch 57 Daenerys V) does not seem to be an adequate reason for failing to tell Dany that Mero had escaped him.

At the time he was complaining to her that Meereen was too well defended to besiege, and they should take their huge slave caravan up the dragon road and leave his former customers in strength behind them.

He left Daenerys on foot, but he has a horse and coin when he meets Tyrion. My guess is that he walked into the hinterlands where he met up with his old mucker Khal Jhaqo's outriders, got a horse and made his way back across the Dothraki Sea to Khal Pono, who was glad enough to have him help drive Motho and Zekko north into the forest of Qohor, while taking their slaves and horses. He could then assist in the negotiations with the civic heads of Selhorys on the price of peace, before heading off to a brothel where he could indulge in his fantasy - the Last Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, as a sex slave. His slave. 

When put like that.........Ser Jorah really was the devil on Daenerys’ shoulder, as well as trying to get inside her knickers.  Ser Barristan was the opposing angel.  If he had a free hand, he’d likely have sold the 40,000 Astapor freedmen to Yunkai.

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Very interesting. I always saw Jorah as a hypocrite, an obsessive and possessive man, sexually obsessed with Daenerys, and I believe he is the one who will kill her in the end with Heartsbane.

But, let me put some unsubstantiated tinfoil on... Imagine if Jorah’s greatest gamble of all was... Daenerys Targaryen. By that I mean that Ilyrio is repaying him a favor by banking Daenerys. His bet was Aegon, but Jorah pushed Ilyrio to fund Daenerys’ rise for himself. A debt of affection to a friend, a friend who may have helped Ilyrio get rich through slavery before?

Edited by Egged

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2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

IDK, George didn't know how Gold Dragons worked in the early books, Anguy drinks away 10k in a few days, that shouldn't be possible.

I just assumed that Anguy was a generous drunk and paid for other men’s drinks too. Stephen Fry told a story in one of his autobiographies which involved a bunch of artists and celebrities at their club. Damien Hirst came in with his winnings from the Turner Prize (20,000 pounds) and insisted that everyone help him spend it right then and there. They spent all twenty grand in six hours, and when the cheque was cashed, Damien said “Another twenty grand on me.”

I assume Anguy is a similar sort.

Edited by Canon Claude

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18 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

I just assumed that Anguy was a generous drunk and paid for other men’s drinks too. Stephen Fry told a story in one of his autobiographies which involved a bunch of artists and celebrities at their club. Damien Hirst came in with his winnings from the Turner Prize (20,000 pounds) and insisted that everyone help him spend it right then and there. They spent all twenty grand in six hours, and when the cheque was cashed, Damien said “Another twenty grand on me.”

I assume Anguy is a similar sort.

that could be if one GD=2 pounds, nut, in The Hedge Knight, Dunk sells a horse for less than 4 GD, so a GD is worth much more than 2 pounds, if a horse is about 400 pounds, then 1 GD=100 pounds, which means that Anguy spent one million pounds in a few weeks of drinking, specially given he wasn't already rich. 

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I doubt the winners' purses were as large as the ones that we saw at the Tourney of the Hand. The tourney at Lannisport is happening on the heels of the Greyjoy Rebellion. Jorah says that he built a fine ship that they used to travel to Lannisport, Oldtown and even to Braavos. Ships require rowers, captains and so on. 

Jorah a creepy  and obsessive mofo, but I don't think he lied about sinking all his money on his wife. Jeor says that Jorah's love (obsession whatever) for Lynesse destroyed him. He doesn't even seem to have received a dowry from Leyton Hightower.

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Honestly, I never thought that the Lynesse-Jorah marriage made any sense at all. I don’t care how heroic Jorah was, he was still head of one of the smallest houses in the North, and he wasn’t a worshipper of the Seven. How did Lord Hightower ever think that match would work???

I think it makes a lot of sense when we look at the succession of Hightowers near House Stark. Walys Flowers, maester at Winterfell for who knows how long. Gerold Hightower, present at the executions of Brandon and his father, died at the ToJ. Lynesse, sent north. I think Jorah gave Leyton Hightower the opportunity to put a Hightower in the north.

Jorah messed up big time when he sold those poachers into slavery. That would have been Lynesse's opportunity to go home. She could have hightailed it out of the north or once she was in Lys. She could have taken a ship home, but she didn't. She chose to be the concubine of some merchant prince rather than return home. I think she stayed away from Oldtown because she fucked up.

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12 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Honestly, I never thought that the Lynesse-Jorah marriage made any sense at all. I don’t care how heroic Jorah was, he was still head of one of the smallest houses in the North, and he wasn’t a worshipper of the Seven. How did Lord Hightower ever think that match would work???

I doubt Hightower was thinking it that much. he had yet another daughter to marry off, Jorah was the hero of the hour and his daughter was clearly smitten with him. Npt every marriage in Westeros are done out of politics, especially when you have a lot of children you just want to get rid of them.

If you want to think about a "better reason", well, Jorah was clearly connected to the new powers of Westeros and that was something that always comes in handy.

Religion was not as important as lack of cash, i doubt she would be half as displeased with the Starks.

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I assume GRRM portrayed both J & L this way because he meant they are like that and there is no need to search for ...'th bottoms in it.

As for his renowned creepiness I can easily imagine most men in pre-dating / coeducation / women liberation era were like that. Just look at behaviour of men in the net in general. This ugly stuff slumbers below thin layer of upringing. And in patriarchal, machist cultures it gambols outside.

I find the abundance of quasi-modern Jons, Robbs and Dunks in the world more suprising than the fact that some strong, brutal bloke from a forest does not know how to behave.

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16 hours ago, Walda said:

The merchant prince Tregar Ormollen purchased Jorah's debt and was therefore able to take his wife as a slave, and everything he left behind him in Lys. He was also entitled to take Jorah, and the sword on his back. But it seems Tregar cut a deal that allowed Jorah to own his sword and come to Volantis a free man.

 

Lynese isn't a slave. Jorah never sold her into slavery. She jumped ship to the rich prince (rightly so), who took on Jorah's debts and told him to kick rocks or he'd call in the debt on him

 

16 hours ago, Walda said:

But that was how he escaped debt in Lys. By selling his wife into sex-slavery in exchange for his skin and his sword, and maybe even a loan for a horse, so he could resume his trade as a slaver.

 You really think so? Given his devotion to Daenerys, which i assume would be similar to what he had for Lynese, i find this incredibly hard to believe. The selling her into sex slavery part i mean.

 

16 hours ago, Walda said:

Lynesse seems content with the change. Or so I infer by her brother Humphrey visiting her in Lys in the hope of raising a navy of sellsails. Which is admittedly an extravagant purchase. The Hightowers seem to be wealthy enough to pay for them, for now. Perhaps they intend to lease them from Ormellon. If so, it would be a loan arrangement between the men, for the services of other men. Hopefully the deal won't bankrupt the Hightowers or Ormellon, but if it did, it would not be because Lynesse had provided the introductions. Or even because she had begged Ormellon to invest in her family and he could refuse her nothing.

 

The Hightowers are fucking loaded. Probably the richest House after the Lannisters. Possibly even as wealthy by the time of book 5 with Cersei blowing cash left and right. Ormellon is just 1 rich merchant prince guy. Her Hightower brother just wants help from them getting contacts for Sellsails as he's not familiar with Lys or how best to do that.

 

16 hours ago, Walda said:

If we look at the way he treats Dany, especially when we compare it to Barristan, he is not really respectful. When she displeases him he calls her a little fool. Most of the time, he is grooming her.

Barristan is a simp (Ashara Dayne). More importantly, he's a Kingsguard. Being respectful is kind of his thing.

16 hours ago, Walda said:

I really think that he knew Mero from his slaving days on the Rhoyne, and allowed him to escape. He might even have known that Mero was going to attempt to assassinate her. It seems mighty suspicious to me that his first words on hearing about the attempt to kill "his Queen" is a long narrow look at Barristan

Of course he's skeptical of a 'Squire with a Stick' killing Mero. That's how he finds out who Barristan is. As for him knowing Mero was looking to assassinate her and potentially let him go, i don't believe this at all.

 

17 hours ago, Walda said:

He left Daenerys on foot, but he has a horse and coin when he meets Tyrion. My guess is that he walked into the hinterlands where he met up with his old mucker Khal Jhaqo's outriders, got a horse and made his way back across the Dothraki Sea to Khal Pono, who was glad enough to have him help drive Motho and Zekko north into the forest of Qohor, while taking their slaves and horses. He could then assist in the negotiations with the civic heads of Selhorys on the price of peace.

Would explain where he got the money for expensive prostitutes.

 

17 hours ago, Walda said:

before heading off to a brothel where he could indulge in his fantasy - the Last Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, as a sex slave. His slave. 

Daenerys is his fantasy, sure. He wants sex from her. Sex slave, his slave might be a bit too far. Do you think he would rape her if he could get away with it?

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Just recalled conversation of Sam and the captain of coast guarding galley near the Old Town. Jorah Mormont spreads slanders on poor Lynesse so effectively, that even her father's men duplicate them. :idea:

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12 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 

Jorah a creepy  and obsessive mofo, but I don't think he lied about sinking all his money on his wife. Jeor says that Jorah's love (obsession whatever) for Lynesse destroyed him. He doesn't even seem to have received a dowry from Leyton Hightower.

That we find him slaking his lusts on a 'beautiful silver-haired whore' after he gets dismissed by Dany says a lot. I also think it's sound to say he never got that dowry from the Hightowers.

 

12 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I doubt the winners' purses were as large as the ones that we saw at the Tourney of the Hand

Yep, no way they would be as big as what the Hand's Tourney was. Stark was going on about how they'd beggar the realm with that kind of prize-money.

 

12 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it makes a lot of sense when we look at the succession of Hightowers near House Stark. Walys Flowers, maester at Winterfell for who knows how long. Gerold Hightower, present at the executions of Brandon and his father, died at the ToJ. Lynesse, sent north. I think Jorah gave Leyton Hightower the opportunity to put a Hightower in the north.

 

Besides Flowers, this is a bit of a stretch. Hightower was Aerys Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and did jack shit for Rickard & Brandon when they died horrifically. Got cut down later by Ned at ToJ, but there wasn't much productive Hightower - Stark talking going down there if almost everyone died. 

Lynesse being given over to Mormont made no sense at all. Unless it has something to do with the glass candles and rumours of Lleyton Hightower practicing sorcery. 

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5 hours ago, frenin said:

 his daughter was clearly smitten with him.

Was she?

5 hours ago, frenin said:

If you want to think about a "better reason", well, Jorah was clearly connected to the new powers of Westeros and that was something that always comes in handy.

Was he? What new powers are we talking about here?

 

5 hours ago, frenin said:

I doubt Hightower was thinking it that much. he had yet another daughter to marry off. Not every marriage in Westeros are done out of politics, especially when you have a lot of children you just want to get rid of them.

All things being considered, Hightower is the most prestigious House that isn't a Great House. There's just about a thousand other powerful lordlings who would jump at the chance to marry a pretty girl like her.

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15 minutes ago, broken one said:

Just recalled conversation of Sam and the captain of coast guarding galley near the Old Town. Jorah Mormont spreads slanders on poor Lynesse so effectively, that even her father's men duplicate them. :idea:

It's not like Westeros is horribly mysoginistic and ready to assume the worst of women, as evidenced by the number of Targaryen "witches".

Also it's not like hearsay is piss poor proof/evidence.

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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