Jon’s is the song of Ice and Fire

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

Before we begin let me make clear that this is a thread only for Jon. Considering that, please let’s stay on topic. It’s perfectly fine if you disagree and you believe that any other character fits better but this is for Jon.

 

Now that we cleared that let us continue. In the story the way it’s portrayed so far it seems like both Ice and Fire are enemies of the humans. Both R’hllor and the Great Other are savages much like their followers. Now, the way it seems to me is that when they are under control, the balance between the two of them is where both of them are beneficial for the mankind. When ice can preserve life and fire can protect life. In the books the phrase Ice and Fire is mentioned many times.

• During the Dance of the Dragons the marriage pact between Houses Stark and Targaryen was named the pact of Ice and Fire.
• During Dany’s visions she sees Rhaegar claiming that his son in the Prince that was promised and his is the Song of Ice and Fire.
• During the War of Five Kings when the Reeds arrived in Winterfell they pledged their fealty to the Starks by Ice and Fire.

The character who combines both of those elements and has connections with all of those cases is Jon. His birth was because Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prince that was Promised prophecy and he was the result of the union, marriage, between Houses Stark and Targaryen. One of the very few people who know Jon’s identity is Howland Reed who also coincidentally might be in possession of Robb’s will.

The balance between the two elements is the reason I believe that Jon is the Prince that was Promised. He is Azor Ahai when it comes to the fire element, after all he is what R’hllor shows in his fire to Melisandre and he is a Snow who owns a Wall made of Ice. He sees in his vision that he has armour of black Ice holding a flame red sword killing wights. He comes from two families with ancestral swords named Ice and Blackfyre. He is the champion of Azor Ahai who because of his connection with ice has fire under control and brings balance to both of them.

 

All ideas and thoughts are welcome as long as it is not turned in an off topic and/or hate thread.

[CamiloRP]

What's the song part then? 

I think no character can be the SOIAF because it would be like saying that they are the one and only protagonist, the special one, and that doesn't fit the story. George uses 'song' interchangeably with 'story' so I think it's just it, a story of extremes that make a whole world, a story of opposing forces. Plus, the reference to an anti war poem in which fire and ice are equally horrible ways of destruction doesn't hurt.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

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[Lilac & Gooseberries]

20 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

What's the song part then? 

Song is balance, song is harmony. Through fighting bringing the balance between ice and fire, keeping them under control and to use them.

[LynnS]

37 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

What's the song part then? 

I think no character can be the SOIAF because it would be like saying that they are the one and only protagonist, the special one, and that doesn't fit the story. George uses 'song' interchangeably with 'story' so I think it's just it, a story of extremes that make a whole world, a story of opposing forces. Plus, the reference to an anti war poem in which fire and ice are equally horrible ways of destruction doesn't hurt.

Agree 100%.  The song is the story we are being told.  Rhaegar says it's Aegon's song but it's every character's song who has a part to play in it.  

[CamiloRP]

53 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Song is balance, song is harmony. Through fighting bringing the balance between ice and fire, keeping them under control and to use them.

I can buy that

[Alyn Oakenfist]

I think it means whatever you want it to mean.

- Maybe it's about Jon

- Maybe it's about Dany

- Maybe it's about the two existential threats in the form of Dany and the Others.

- Maybe it's about the living vs the dead.

- Maybe it's about the two known deities with magic, rhallo and the old gods.

I think it means whatever you want it to mean. Personally I think of it as a LOTR reference with the music of the ainur and how everything balances out.

[Mourning Star]

"We're all just songs in the end. If we are lucky."

[The Commentator]

He might be, but it doesn’t mean he’s good or even positive.  Jon has been a negative so far.  He has done more harm than any lord commander at the watch.  Jon is not a force for the good. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

27 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

He might be, but it doesn’t mean he’s good or even positive.  Jon has been a negative so far.  He has done more harm than any lord commander at the watch.  Jon is not a force for the good. 

Please don't let it turn on a hate thread. Thank you.

 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

7 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I think it means whatever you want it to mean. Personally I think of it as a LOTR reference with the music of the ainur and how everything balances out.

That is what I mean. The song is about the balance. Very nice connection with LOTR.

[HoodedCrow]

I do think Jon may be the answer to Neds way or Aerys Way. He is humane and was developing savvy until he was gravely injured.

[Mad King Bolton]

I would agree with this OP.  I think Jon is Azor even though there's plenty of evidence that could make someone else be Azor.  It would seem that Jon is Rhaegar's 3rd son.  I don't think Rhaegar's past belief in a prophecy that the book series is titled would need to be shared if it wasn't important to the larger plot end game.  Jon has been in the thick of the story where the real war will be fought between the living and the dead.  I would think that we can agree that the Iron Throne is the focus of many characters that are in Westeros either directly or is drawing them to Westeros but eventually, what is happening at the wall is going to draw every major POV character in the story there directly or indirectly (Cersei probably won't end up in the North I suppose).  Central to the story in the North is Jon and in regards to what one poster said, he's only doing more harm than good from the perspective of some narrowly focused individuals who mistakenly see wildlings as the main enemy and not the Others.  

[Rose of Red Lake]

I like your points about the Reeds. Jon may get unbalanced for a time the closer he gets to Dany but I dont think it will be permanent. 

[Daeron the Daring]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:35 AM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Before we begin let me make clear that this is a thread only for Jon. Considering that, please let’s stay on topic. It’s perfectly fine if you disagree and you believe that any other character fits better but this is for Jon.

 

Now that we cleared that let us continue. In the story the way it’s portrayed so far it seems like both Ice and Fire are enemies of the humans. Both R’hllor and the Great Other are savages much like their followers. Now, the way it seems to me is that when they are under control, the balance between the two of them is where both of them are beneficial for the mankind. When ice can preserve life and fire can protect life. In the books the phrase Ice and Fire is mentioned many times.

• During the Dance of the Dragons the marriage pact between Houses Stark and Targaryen was named the pact of Ice and Fire.
• During Dany’s visions she sees Rhaegar claiming that his son in the Prince that was promised and his is the Song of Ice and Fire.
• During the War of Five Kings when the Reeds arrived in Winterfell they pledged their fealty to the Starks by Ice and Fire.

The character who combines both of those elements and has connections with all of those cases is Jon. His birth was because Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prince that was Promised prophecy and he was the result of the union, marriage, between Houses Stark and Targaryen. One of the very few people who know Jon’s identity is Howland Reed who also coincidentally might be in possession of Robb’s will.

The balance between the two elements is the reason I believe that Jon is the Prince that was Promised. He is Azor Ahai when it comes to the fire element, after all he is what R’hllor shows in his fire to Melisandre and he is a Snow who owns a Wall made of Ice. He sees in his vision that he has armour of black Ice holding a flame red sword killing wights. He comes from two families with ancestral swords named Ice and Blackfyre. He is the champion of Azor Ahai who because of his connection with ice has fire under control and brings balance to both of them.

 

All ideas and thoughts are welcome as long as it is not turned in an off topic and/or hate thread.

Altough I think Jon is Azor Ahai, I don't think the Song of Ice and Fire is his. Or any single individuals'. It's the song of the living and the dead. 

Rhaegar was kinda wrong about many things, I think. He might be seen as one of the most important characters of this 'song', maybe even the most important, but we can't ignore people like Bran, Daenerys, Arya or Tyrion (not being a secret Targaryen bastard). These people are all important, in the order I presented them (I think). If there ever be a tale or a song about this, these people will likely be included. Maybe Young Griff and Jaime too.

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

28 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Rhaegar was kinda wrong about many things, I think. He might be seen as one of the most important characters of this 'song', maybe even the most important, but we can't ignore people like Bran, Daenerys, Arya or Tyrion (not being a secret Targaryen bastard). These people are all important, in the order I presented them (I think). If there ever be a tale or a song about this, these people will likely be included. Maybe Young Griff and Jaime too.

Don't forget Stannis either. Sure, he might not be the hero, but given where his story is headed I think he will be a hero.

[Daeron the Daring]

39 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Don't forget Stannis either. Sure, he might not be the hero, but given where his story is headed I think he will be a hero.

Depends on how his story ends, I believe. And I don't see any brightness in his future, honestly.

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Depends on how his story ends, I believe. And I don't see any brightness in his future, honestly.

Yeah, I can't see George rewarding the guy who killed his own brother. All this meddling with dark magic will take a great cost from him.

[Daeron the Daring]

1 hour ago, CamiloRP said:

Yeah, I can't see George rewarding the guy who killed his own brother. All this meddling with dark magic will take a great cost from him.

Yeah, I know. I mean, a lot of readers do like him, but from the moment he did that thingy with the leeches, I can't see him or Melisandre as good characters. Even if it didn't work, it's one of the most amoral things I've reaf in the books.

On the other hand, he's clearly the murderer of his own brother, even if he was his usurper.

Nor the North gives him any credit for anything. Lord Manderly thinks he is the way trough to Stark restauration, but that's all. 

They don't like him, nor does anyone south of Moat Cailin. Nor the wildlings. Only the mountain clans (or so does it seem).

Simply because he's a dick. Always been, and is pretty responsible for what happened in KL.

Edit: Characters doing good does not make them good. Tho I don't hate the character at all, I feel no simpathy to him (not that way).

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Jon is was born in Dorne, a place of heat (fire). He was raised at Winterfell, a place of both ice and fire. He was stabbed at the Wall, a place of ice and cold. He will be brought back in a place of ice (plus whatever children of the forest magic is locked into the Wall) and fire (Melisandre).