JGP Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Werthead said: I doubt there's real insider info, just supposition from how Sony seem to want to pull Holland into their own projects like Venom but haven't been able to (Marvel presumably have to okay that and they haven't so far) and they and Marvel clearly had problems with the deal last year which is why it nearly got scuppered and that had to wrangle a new one. Marvel's preference is to get Spider-Man back, but Sony would likely only accept a truly insane amount of money for that (maybe $3-5 billion would do it, but much less than that I think is a non-starter) and Marvel probably won't pay that, unless they think they're going to do 4 or more films with Holland after this one. It depends how confident Sony is that a non-MCU Spider-Man film will perform, even with Holland in the role, or if they think they'll make more bank from continuing the MCU collaboration. I think Into the Spider-Verse has made Sony a lot more confident about that. So the deal Sony have is a licence for any and all characters who have originated in a mainline Spider-Man comic, even those signed since the deal was done (hence how Miles and the team showed up in Spider-Verse). So any character originating in a Spider-Man title is owned by Sony (in film terms anyway). Thus Venom, Green Goblin, Vulture, MJ, Gwen, Aunt May etc. Sony signed a deal basically sub-letting the characters to Marvel Studios for 3 movies. Once that expires, Marvel can't use them again until they sign a new deal, or they buy the rights back to the characters from Sony or the termination clause triggers, which is probably if they go x number of years (either seven or ten, as I believe they went over the five-year mark between Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man) without making a Spider-Man film. And that's never going to happen. Or Disney say fuck it and buy Sony outright. What a fucking mess. As an aside though, makes me think about this bullshit a week ago about a bunch of well heeled fans in negotiations with DC to buy the IPs of Superman, Batman, et so on. That would also be a mess. Circling back to Spiderman, way I see it, a longterm valuation of the Spiderman IP wouldn't really factor actors in at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Werthead said: I doubt there's real insider info, just supposition from how Sony seem to want to pull Holland into their own projects like Venom but haven't been able to (Marvel presumably have to okay that and they haven't so far) and they and Marvel clearly had problems with the deal last year which is why it nearly got scuppered and that had to wrangle a new one. Marvel's preference is to get Spider-Man back, but Sony would likely only accept a truly insane amount of money for that (maybe $3-5 billion would do it, but much less than that I think is a non-starter) and Marvel probably won't pay that, unless they think they're going to do 4 or more films with Holland after this one. It depends how confident Sony is that a non-MCU Spider-Man film will perform, even with Holland in the role, or if they think they'll make more bank from continuing the MCU collaboration. I think Into the Spider-Verse has made Sony a lot more confident about that. So the deal Sony have is a licence for any and all characters who have originated in a mainline Spider-Man comic, even those signed since the deal was done (hence how Miles and the team showed up in Spider-Verse). So any character originating in a Spider-Man title is owned by Sony (in film terms anyway). Thus Venom, Green Goblin, Vulture, MJ, Gwen, Aunt May etc. Sony signed a deal basically sub-letting the characters to Marvel Studios for 3 movies. Once that expires, Marvel can't use them again until they sign a new deal, or they buy the rights back to the characters from Sony or the termination clause triggers, which is probably if they go x number of years (either seven or ten, as I believe they went over the five-year mark between Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man) without making a Spider-Man film. And that's never going to happen. Or Disney say fuck it and buy Sony outright. Closer to $5 billion than to $3 billion I would think. With the debt they're carrying from the Fox acquisition and the losses due to Covid, Sony might be too rich for them for some time. My understanding of the Disney/Sony deal is that Disney gets to produce Tom Holland Spider-Man related merchandise, from which they keep all profits, and Sony pays Marvel Studios to produce Tom Holland Spider-Man films which Sony then distributes and keeps the profits. Sony sees nothing from Spider-Man appearances in the broader MCU. If what I've heard about Spider-Man merch is true, this is an incredibly lopsided deal in Disney's favor. IMO, Sony has struck gold with Lord and Miller and the Spider-Verse film. Not only did they produce a brilliant Spider-Man film (the best IMO), but they may have stumbled on a hell of a ready-made shared universe concept with a single film. If tom Holland appears in a non-MCU film, It will be there, as a voice actor. Fun fact: Tom Holland has been Spider-Man longer than Maguire or Garfield. Here lies a potential wrinkle. He was 19 when he filmed Civil War. He turns 25 this year. In the MCU continuity he and his friends are still 16 years old. I don't know if this occurred to anyone else watching FFH, but he's having a harder time passing for 16 than his co stars. Just how much time does he have left in this role? Are audiences going to want to see a 30 year old Spider-Man or will it be time to reboot the character by then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 hours ago, Werthead said: That title and Jon Watts moving on to Fantastic Four after this wraps adds credence to the rumour that Marvel and Sony worked out a deal for one more movie that will remove Holland-Spider-Man from the MCU and into the Sonyverse. I believe the extension of the deal also included one non spider-man MCU movie. Maybe Fantastic Four? But anyway that suggests he's sticking around in the MCU for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 hours ago, RumHam said: I believe the extension of the deal also included one non spider-man MCU movie. Maybe Fantastic Four? But anyway that suggests he's sticking around in the MCU for now. Potentially, unless it's Multiverse of Madness which would be the very next film (out less than 4 months after No Way Home) and has the Dr. Strange connection. If there's multiverse shenanigans in this film and the film ends with Spider-Man stuck in another dimension, then we could see Dr. Strange trying to find him in the next film and makes contact briefly for an extended cameo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 53 minutes ago, Werthead said: Potentially, unless it's Multiverse of Madness which would be the very next film (out less than 4 months after No Way Home) and has the Dr. Strange connection. If there's multiverse shenanigans in this film and the film ends with Spider-Man stuck in another dimension, then we could see Dr. Strange trying to find him in the next film and makes contact briefly for an extended cameo. That just made me realize that the main MCU sequence of films will be Spider-Man: Far From Home — Black Widow (if they ever release it) — Spider-Man: No Way Home Thats almost early MCU “All we have is Ironman and Hulk” level of frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Rhom said: That just made me realize that the main MCU sequence of films will be Spider-Man: Far From Home — Black Widow (if they ever release it) — Spider-Man: No Way Home Thats almost early MCU “All we have is Ironman and Hulk” level of frequency. Shang Chi and Eternals are both before No Way Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 33 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: Shang Chi and Eternals are both before No Way Home. Did I misunderstand? Thought No Way Home was this Christmas? When the heck are those coming out?!!? If it’s before Christmas, that’s some of the least hyped Marvel movies I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: Shang Chi and Eternals are both before No Way Home. And presumably Black widow will be before all of those. If Spider-Man NWH is out Dec. 17, Disney must have some pretty optimistic projections for theaters reopening. That or they'll release them on top of each other... or one or more of them go to streaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 17 minutes ago, Rhom said: Did I misunderstand? Thought No Way Home was this Christmas? When the heck are those coming out?!!? If it’s before Christmas, that’s some of the least hyped Marvel movies I can remember. Wikipedia has them down for July and November. I know, I was surprised to. Up until Loki got slightly delayed, the plan was WandaVision, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Loki, Shang Chi, What If?, Ms. Marvel, Eternals, Hawkeye, Spider-Man 3, filling up every single week of 2021. And there’s enough announced series after that to assume this might even by the target from here on out, weekly MCU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughn Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 11 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: The idea of a Tom Holland Spider-Man movie without the MCU will be terrible. I think a Far From Home made without Happy or Fury/Hill would have been possible with some creativity. The core cast carries the film and while Mysterio is MCU, that character isn't iconic to the general public so easily replaced with an equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vaughn said: I think a Far From Home made without Happy or Fury/Hill would have been possible with some creativity. The core cast carries the film and while Mysterio is MCU, that character isn't iconic to the general public so easily replaced with an equivalent. I feel like Far from Home had too much MCU. Honestly I don’t really buy into Pete’s relationship with Tony Stark, I know how it’s been set up but I don’t see it as an integral part of his character and I wish they would move away from his place in the Avengers and get him back to doing Spidey stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 The current movie schedule is: 7 May 2021: Black Widow 9 July 2021: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 5 November 2021: Eternals 17 December 2021: Spider-Man - No Way Home 25 March 2022: Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 6 May 2022: Thor - Love & Thunder 8 July 2022: Black Panther II 11 November 2022: Captain Marvel 2 tbc 2022: Ant-Man & the Wasp - Quantumania tbc 2023: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 tbc: Fantastic Four, Blade For TV it's: 19 March 2021: The Falcon & the Winter Soldier 11 June 2021: Loki tbc 2021: What If...?, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye tbc 2022: Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special tbc: Secret Invasion, Ironheart, Armor Wars, Wakanda Fairly obviously, people are very sceptical about Black Widow hitting that date. In the UK, for example, cinemas will still be closed when it debuts, and both Black Widow and Shang-Chi moving are quite likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Werthead said: The current movie schedule is: 7 May 2021: Black Widow 9 July 2021: Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 5 November 2021: Eternals 17 December 2021: Spider-Man - No Way Home 25 March 2022: Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 6 May 2022: Thor - Love & Thunder 8 July 2022: Black Panther II 11 November 2022: Captain Marvel 2 tbc 2022: Ant-Man & the Wasp - Quantumania tbc 2023: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 tbc: Fantastic Four, Blade For TV it's: 19 March 2021: The Falcon & the Winter Soldier 11 June 2021: Loki tbc 2021: What If...?, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye tbc 2022: Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special tbc: Secret Invasion, Ironheart, Armor Wars, Wakanda Fairly obviously, people are very sceptical about Black Widow hitting that date. In the UK, for example, cinemas will still be closed when it debuts, and both Black Widow and Shang-Chi moving are quite likely. Or Disney changes gears and copies WarnerBros and releases it on Disney + and theatres at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 46 minutes ago, Slurktan said: Or Disney changes gears and copies WarnerBros and releases it on Disney + and theatres at the same time. Or Disney themselves with Mulan. I get the impression that Mulan and Tenet had mixed success with that approach and Marvel don't want to do that unless they have to, but the backlog of films building up may make it necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Vaughn said: I think a Far From Home made without Happy or Fury/Hill would have been possible with some creativity. The core cast carries the film and while Mysterio is MCU, that character isn't iconic to the general public so easily replaced with an equivalent. I'm not saying they couldn't have done it without the MCU characters. However, Tom Holland is pretty explicitly entrenched in the DNA of the third and fourth phases of the MCU. A Sony film with Tom Holland and none of the trapping of the MCU? Hard pass. I have zero faith and zero interest with anything Sony does, with the only caveat being that Into the Spiderverse was probably the only truly great thing they've done once Spider-Man 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Werthead said: Or Disney themselves with Mulan. I get the impression that Mulan and Tenet had mixed success with that approach and Marvel don't want to do that unless they have to, but the backlog of films building up may make it necessary. I think what WB realised and the other studios are refusing to is that if they wait with every big film till cinemas are definitely open then they're all gonna fail anyway coz people won't wanna go to the cinema _that_ often and in any case cinemas can only screen so much - there's gonna be an absurd amount of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 7 hours ago, Werthead said: Potentially, unless it's Multiverse of Madness which would be the very next film (out less than 4 months after No Way Home) and has the Dr. Strange connection. If there's multiverse shenanigans in this film and the film ends with Spider-Man stuck in another dimension, then we could see Dr. Strange trying to find him in the next film and makes contact briefly for an extended cameo. I don't think it'll be Multiverse of Madness. Unless it's a small thing they film during production of No Way Home. Holland mentioned in a interview the other day that he's taking a little time off. Multiverse of Madness is packed enough already with Strange, Wanda, all the leftover stuff from Doctor Strange like Mordo. It'd be interesting if Mordo showed up at the end of WandaVision, come to think of it. I'm not really worried that Spider-Man is going to leave the MCU. I think Sony is just going to put him in their movies also, and hope a fair amount of the movie going public thus assumes Venom 2 and the others are in the MCU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Vaughn said: Mysterio is MCU Not sure about that one. I think he's mainly a Spidey villain, so probably Sony. The deals Marvel did back when appear to be fuzzy in places but I'm fairly sure Mysterio would have been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 12 minutes ago, mormont said: Not sure about that one. I think he's mainly a Spidey villain, so probably Sony. The deals Marvel did back when appear to be fuzzy in places but I'm fairly sure Mysterio would have been covered. I've always thought of him as primarily a Spiderman rogues gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, RumHam said: I'm not really worried that Spider-Man is going to leave the MCU. Yeah I don't really get the business sense in not extending the agreement. Having Spiderman continue to be a part of the MCU is clearly mutually beneficial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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