Tinfoil: Daenerys is a skinchanged Ashara Dayne

[Bullrout]

Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Bloodraven is a demigod. He comes from a lineage connected with the First men. He was practising magic well before getting his weirwood throne. He has powers that are far beyond simple magic.

None of those is a clue that Elissa was in any way connected with magic and knew how to practise magic. Let alone being alive at the age of almost 300 years.

Not by themselves.  But look at all we have been given.  Elissa stole three dragon eggs.  She allegedly sold them to finance her trip.  She sailed west and was never seen again.  Planetos is round.  It means going west will eventually take her to the other side of the globe.  Her Sunchaser was seen in Asshai years later.  Asshai is the magic city, where people learn and practice the art.  Quaithe shows up years later and claims to be from the city.  She takes a strong interest in the dragons and Daenerys Targaryen.  I say all of that should make us think the two are connected at the very least. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

6 minutes ago, Bullrout said:

Not by themselves.  But look at all we have been given.  Elissa stole three dragon eggs.  She allegedly sold them to finance her trip.  She sailed west and was never seen again.  Planetos is round.  It means going west will eventually take her to the other side of the globe.  Her Sunchaser was seen in Asshai years later.  Asshai is the magic city, where people learn and practice the art.  Quaithe shows up years later and claims to be from the city.  She takes a strong interest in the dragons and Daenerys Targaryen.  I say all of that should make us think the two are connected at the very least. 

You have three different facts. Elissa loved travelling, Asshai is full of magic and the Quaithe has magic. The textual connection between the three of them is the fact that Quaithe comes from Asshai. There is no contextual proof that Elissa arrived in Asshai alive let alone that she was ever trained in magic arts.

[CamiloRP]

4 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Baby Dany wasn't even born then. Dany was born almost half a year after Ashara's death.

Do we know when Ashara died relative to Dany's death? All we know is that she died some time after Ned visited her and Dany was born about nine months after the Trident, so the timelines could add up. Not that I agree with the theory tho.

[Egged]

2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Do we know when Ashara died relative to Dany's death? All we know is that she died some time after Ned visited her and Dany was born about nine months after the Trident, so the timelines could add up. Not that I agree with the theory tho.

On top of that nine months after the Trident is about nine months after Ned visits Ashara.

But Daenerys does not look like someone who would be Ned+Ashara's child, only Ashara's + a Targ.

But it's also nine months after Dawn is brought back to Starfall.

Quote

The Dornishman's wife was as fair as the sun,
and her kisses were warmer than spring.
But the Dornishman's blade was made of black steel,
and its kiss was a terrible thing.

The Dornishman's wife would sing as she bathed,
in a voice that was sweet as a peach,
But the Dornishman's blade had a song of its own,
and a bite sharp and cold as a leech.

As he lay on the ground with the darkness around,
and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer,
and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,

"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done,
the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter, for all men must die,
and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

Quote

"It never happened," Jon said.

She shrugged. "Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though. My mother used to sing it to me. She was a woman too, Jon Snow. Like yours." She rubbed her throat where his dirk had cut her. "The song ends when they find the babe, but there is a darker end to the story.

Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford . . . and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword."

"So the son slew the father instead," said Jon.

"Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak."

Quote

"She killed herself, though," said Arya uncertainly. "Ned says she jumped from a tower into the sea."

"So she did," Harwin admitted, as he led her back, "but that was for grief, I'd wager. She'd lost a brother, the Sword of the Morning." He shook his head. "Let it lie, my lady. They're dead, all of them. Let it lie . . . and please, when we come to Riverrun, say naught of this to your mother."

[...]

But Ashara's daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well.

Quote

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

We have ancient kings (very ancient, older than Valyria), with swords of pale fire telling her to run faster, her feet melt stone, and she then ends up skinchanging as a Targaryen into someone else. Ashara jumped out of the Palestone Sword tower.

The sword was alive with light when Ned saw it.

The Dornishman's wife song is about someone going into a black-steel sword after it is used to kill a woman.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

8 hours ago, Bullrout said:

1. Daenerys Targaryen is Azor Ahai

It's hard to explain, but the proof is the life and vigor of her dragons.

8 hours ago, Bullrout said:

She is the daughter of King Aerys 2 and Queen Rhaella

Allegedly

8 hours ago, Bullrout said:

and heir to Westeros. 

No she isn't.

The Iron Throne is absolute male primogeniture, so even if he is a Blackfyre, Aegon comes before her.

For that reason Stannis is before her as well.

At best, Dany is behind Stannis and Aegon, at worst, she's behind Jon, Stannis and Aegon.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 hour ago, Egged said:

The Dornishman's wife song is about someone going into a black-steel sword after it is used to kill a woman.

What? It's for someone who died by a Dornishman's blade after habing copulation with his wife.

3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Do we know when Ashara died relative to Dany's death? All we know is that she died some time after Ned visited her and Dany was born about nine months after the Trident, so the timelines could add up. Not that I agree with the theory tho.

Not directly. We know that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing and that whe wiki has 283 as her death year. But we don't know when Ashara died. Having said that we do know that Ashara died falling from  Palestone Sword tower in Dorne and Dany was born in Dragonstone. Consequently it's not only a matter of chronology but also of geography.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said:

At best, Dany is behind Stannis and Aegon, at worst, she's behind Jon, Aegon and Aegon.

Dany is behind all male claimants. The line is more like Jon-Stannis-Aegon-Dany.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Dany is behind all male claimants. The line is more like Jon-Stannis-Aegon-Dany.

Sorry for the typo.

Yes, if Aegon is legit, the line is Aegon, Jon, Stannis, Dany.

If Aegon is a Blackfyre or Brightflame through the male line, the line is Jon, Aegon, Stannis, Dany

If Aegon is a Blackfyre or Brightflame through the female line then the line is Jon, Stannis, Aegon Dany.

Either way, Dany is last due to being a woman. She also gets bonus points for being barren, inability to have children is often enough to remove someone from the succession line (it's  usually eunuch though)

[saltedmalted]

You got it wrong. Ashara Dayne is skinchanged time-travelling Daenerys.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

36 minutes ago, saltedmalted said:

You got it wrong. Ashara Dayne is skinchanged time-travelling Daenerys.

It is known.

[CamiloRP]

6 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

What? It's for someone who died by a Dornishman's blade after habing copulation with his wife.

Not directly. We know that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing and that whe wiki has 283 as her death year. But we don't know when Ashara died. Having said that we do know that Ashara died falling from  Palestone Sword tower in Dorne and Dany was born in Dragonstone. Consequently it's not only a matter of chronology but also of geography.

Yeah, exactly, Ned would have to go from the Trident to KL, take the city, wait for Robert, go to Storm's End, break the siege, find out where Luann's is, go to the tower of Joy, battle, deal with the whole Lyanna thing, bury the dead, and go to Starfall. It could conceivably take nine months.

[El Guapo]

6 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It's hard to explain, but the proof is the life and vigor of her dragons.

Allegedly

No she isn't.

The Iron Throne is absolute male primogeniture, so even if he is a Blackfyre, Aegon comes before her.

For that reason Stannis is before her as well.

At best, Dany is behind Stannis and Aegon, at worst, she's behind Jon, Stannis and Aegon.

Nope. Aegon would only come before her if he is the legit son of Rhaegar and even that is questionable since Aerys passed him over in favor of Viserys.   Stannis in no way shape or form would come before her as he is descended from a female line.  And he is not a Targaryen, He is a Baratheon.

 

[LynnS]

9 hours ago, Egged said:

The Dornishman's wife was as fair as the sun,
and her kisses were warmer than spring.
But the Dornishman's blade was made of black steel,
and its kiss was a terrible thing.

The Dornishman's wife would sing as she bathed,
in a voice that was sweet as a peach,
But the Dornishman's blade had a song of its own,
and a bite sharp and cold as a leech.

As he lay on the ground with the darkness around,
and the taste of his blood on his tongue,
His brothers knelt by him and prayed him a prayer,
and he smiled and he laughed and he sung,

"Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done,
the Dornishman's taken my life,
But what does it matter, for all men must die,
and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"

I have another take on this song.  It's a song sung by Wildlings about the previous Lord Commander Qorgyle, who was a Dornishman.  His "wife" is his sword.  

Lord Commander Qorgyle - A Wiki of Ice and Fire (westeros.org)

There was some speculation that he is Mance's father.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Nope. Aegon would only come before her if he is the legit son of Rhaegar

Women cannot inherit. Therefore while someone like Stannis it Aegon if he's fake get pulled away, coming from the female line, they re still better than Dany in the line as they're male.

2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

and even that is questionable since Aerys passed him over in favor of Viserys. 

The Dance showed the whishes of the King don't matter, and even if they did, this is Aerys, his post mortem word isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on.

2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

And he is not a Targaryen, He is a Baratheon.

The family name is irelevant for the succession.

[El Guapo]

7 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Women cannot inherit. Therefore while someone like Stannis it Aegon if he's fake get pulled away, coming from the female line, they re still better than Dany in the line as they're male.

The Dance showed the whishes of the King don't matter, and even if they did, this is Aerys, his post mortem word isn't worth the toilet paper it's written on.

The family name is irelevant for the succession.

Not true.  There is no law that states this at all.  And yes the daughter of the king would come before a distant male relative on the female line

[Daeron the Daring]

18 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

The family name is irelevant for the succession.

A female member of a patrilinear line comes before a male member of a matrilinear line. That means that Stannis does not come before Daenerys, because matrilinear descendance isn't as strong as a patrilinear one. 

And House Blackfyre is currently a legally exiled house, and extinct too (The patrilinear line died out). Not to mention that Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard, and bastard children can inherit before trueborn cousins but only after tureborn children. That way, if Aegon is a Blackfyre even trough a patrilinear line, he comes after Daenerys. Not to mention that the Blackfyres are banished. 

She even comes before a bastardborn Jon, but we can agree that he is a trueborn son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. That makes Daenerys 2nd in line, if Aegon is fake. If not, she's the third.

Do you think if Aegon III would've died, they would've given the throne to a Velaryon due to their Targaryen ancestry from before the Conquest? Or to Alyn, for having a Targaryen grandmother (Rhaenys, and we know she wasn't his grandmother, but whatever). It would've been Baela's or Rhaena's. Likely Baela's because of Alyn, but I hope you get what I mean.

[Daeron the Daring]

6 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Not true.  There is no law that states this at all.  And yes the daughter of the king would come before a distant male relative on the female line

Yes. Westeros does only have male preferance, they do not cast out women entirely.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

A female member of a patrilinear line comes before a male member of a matrilinear line. That means that Stannis does not come before Daenerys, because matrilinear descendance isn't as strong as a patrilinear one

Acrually it is. Aegon the Elder's heir wasn't Jaehaera, it was Aegon the Younger, even if his claim was through the female line too.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

3 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Yes. Westeros does only have male preferance, they do not cast out women entirely

F&B says quite clealy that women inherit only if all men claimants are gone 

[Daeron the Daring]

8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Acrually it is. Aegon the Elder's heir wasn't Jaehaera, it was Aegon the Younger, even if his claim was through the female line too.

We know the Dance is entirely different because it kicked up everything. That does not change the fact that Aegon II would've killed Aegon the Younger instead of letting him inherit, so pretty much he considered Jaehaera his heir.

And altough Aegon had the stronger claim trough a matrilinear line, he also had a claim trough a patrilinear line, trough Daemon. Patrilinearity comes before matrilinearity.

8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

F&B says quite clealy that women inherit only if all men claimants are gone 

It's what the Great Council of 101 states, not what actual current succession is. After that such things happened as Viserys naming his female child his heir, the Dance of the Dragons and the Great Council of 233 where female members are passed over, but still considered for inheriting the Throne.