Covid 19 #26: Now is the Winter of Our Discontent

[JoannaL]

5 hours ago, Padraig said:

Its very complicated.  The best argument for patience is the vaccines.  If we wait a little longer, the risk will fall a lot.  Somebody mentioned here earlier...who wants to be the last person to die during an epidemic!

You are right. We just have to be patient and wait a little while longer. Its the prudent course of action and the way our politicians tried to weather the pandemic from the beginning. Still afterwards, if we have time to analyze everything, we will see that in some areas maybe the lockdown cost was higher (and I do not mean economically) than necessary. Its difficult though to find just the right amount of lockdown as to not incite exponential virus growth.

Also Germany didnt do great this winter, we had a wave and really bad numbers at the beginning of January. Sometimes it seem the measures are always a step behind, not quickly  fast enough to stop the steep exponential growth at the beginning and not fast enough on the other hand to open when  it is less bad.

One example: my mother lives in a care home and in December when the numbers were really bad, there was no testing or measures in place to protect her. a lot of people in care homes died. Then everything was belately put in place to protect care homes so since January the rules are: only one guest per week for one hour, only meeting in a designated room, only after testing. But my mother (the whole care home) was vaccinated in January (twice, Biontech) and I really do not understand why now, in March, I can meet her only once a week? And so I AM impatient after all, even if I am trying my best...

[The Anti-Targ]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:22 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

I don't know if the site can share this image?

Daily New Cases in Wisconsin

Novel Coronavirus Daily CasesDaily New CasesCases per DayData as of 0:00 GMT+0Mar 12, 2020Apr 16, 2020May 21, 2020Jun 25, 2020Jul 30, 2020Sep 03, 2020Oct 08, 2020Nov 12, 2020Dec 17, 2020Jan 21, 2021Feb 25, 202102.5k5k7.5kDaily Cases3-day moving average7-day moving average

 

But it's the most gorgeous V shaped recovery possible.

 

Really hoping this holds.

 

Eta: rats it didn't post the image.

You'll just have to trust me (or look up Wisconsin's daily new cases graph).

It's truly a beautiful, beautiful chart!

Nice. It looks a bit like a photo from a certain angle of one of our volcanoes: Mt Taranaki in profile

[Clueless Northman]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

ETA: I would have really expected (perhaps naively) more transparency in terms of what you expect as side effects. In medical terms "mild" are actually quite strong for most people.

We've seen this last year that "mild", when it comes to covid symptoms, is basically "anything that doesn't send you to hospital", so indeed there's a lot of bullshit going on with these decriptions.

 

5 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I read that the Pfizer, Moderna and AZ vaccines have more side effects than flu vaccines. I dunno how they compare to each other. 

My mom got her flu shot and felt nothing afterwards, though she usually felt a little bit of sore arm for a day, said they could've injected water for all she knew. Got Pfizer and barely noticed, just a bit of sore arm like her usual flu shots. Of course, all anecdotal but interesting to see reactions to different shots fromt he same person. I wonder if reactions to 2nd jab will be stronger.

[Padraig]

6 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Or it could be the low number of cases has lulled everyone into a false sense of security. On the flip side, obedience of authority is still deeply instilled leading to high mask mandate compliance, and maybe voluntary vaccines arent the way to go.

Even in Europe, the perception of vaccines varies quite a lot.  Some people link it to suspicion of authority.  Maybe that is why France does so poorly (57%).  But the US at 71% might be surprisingly high?   Generally people are becoming more supportive towards vaccination though.  Which makes sense, as more and more people take it.

https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-attitudes-covid-19-vaccine-january-2021

5 hours ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

Makes me wonder if people are just not prepared for side effects (Pfizer was administered to medical practitioners who are in general more aware you can get side effects and it’s normal, and to older people with weaker immune reaction) or is there really a significant difference between AZ and Pfizer.

I did read somewhere that AZ may have marginally more severe side-effects.  At least for the first jab.  But there is quite a large range.  Your personal circumstances can make a big difference.  But i'm assuming these people bounce back within 24/48 hours?  My sister got the AZ vaccine and a good night sleep sorted her out.  My father had no side-effects at all from the Pfizer vaccine.

Now maybe when I got vaccinated I'll be full of self-pity from the pain but right now, it sounds like people are a bit spoilt.  Is protecting your life not enough?

1 hour ago, JoannaL said:

But my mother (the whole care home) was vaccinated in January (twice, Biontech) and I really do not understand why now, in March, I can meet her only once a week? And so I AM impatient after all, even if I am trying my best...

Ouch.  Things like that aren't helping.  I think the advice the CDC published recently in the US seems reasonable (what I read anyhow).  You allow people a reward.  And sure, vaccines aren't 100% perfect but I don't see why one visit is fine but 2 is bad.  They surely must have room.  You said you can get tested quite regularly also in Germany?  I think this is where personal responsibility can come into play and feeling like you have reduced the risk to a manageable level.

Governments can focus too much on the economic side of things and not adjusting restrictions on the things that can really matter to people.

Finally, the state of play from politico.  Nothing good in it, so might be best to ignore!  Moderna has now started vaccinating people with its vaccine boosters (as part of a trial).  That is good news.

[Buckwheat]

Was happy to soon. After a very sleepless night, I got up with a sore arm, headache, high fever, light nausea and all around feeling like my body weighs a ton. I assume these are all side effects from the vaccine. I am staying home today and hope to feel better tomorrow. At least it is a sign that my immune system is strong?

[Filippa Eilhart]

7 hours ago, Padraig said:

But i'm assuming these people bounce back within 24/48 hours?

Yeah. It's mostly what people are saying above - what is described as "mild" effects doesn't really feel mild to people - 39 degree fever, chills, flu symptoms - but goes away after a day or two.

[BigFatCoward]

7 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Got my son scheduled for his 1st Moderna shot on Friday. He’s been in the hospital twice for 2 weeks since December for a spontaneous pneumothorax. Literally wept when I got him scheduled, and will probably break down again when he actually gets it.

As a parent i cant imagine how you have even been holding it together waiting for this. 

[rotting sea cow]

15 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

hey have stopped using batch of the AZ in Austria because of a death and a hospitalization but it seems unlikely that they are really connected but they have not ruled it out completly at this point. 

Denmark halts use of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.reuters.com/article/healthcoronavirus-denmark/denmark-halts-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-idUSS8N2JV04G

Seems to be related.

 

 

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Leap said:

So I kind of think this is the best way to approach things. It may be a bit of a surprise to people who hadn't expected to genuinely feel a bit ill from this, but on the other hand, the Government shouldn't be hand-holding people through this by hammering this home as a message if it's going to risk turning people off the vaccine. 

Transparency is always better. Word is going to get out sooner or later and may deter more people if they feel the authorities are hiding something.

Also, a day off work should be standard for recipients.

[Buckwheat]

Well, these reports about AZ are not making me feel calmer.

[Raja]

6 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

Was happy to soon. After a very sleepless night, I got up with a sore arm, headache, high fever, light nausea and all around feeling like my body weighs a ton. I assume these are all side effects from the vaccine. I am staying home today and hope to feel better tomorrow. At least it is a sign that my immune system is strong?

Yes, these are all symptoms associated with the vaccine. Here is a list for the AZ one from Gov.uk ( scroll down to point 4), as you can see, the ones you mention are all under 'very common'-  more than 1/10 people. Hope you feel better soon!

Quote

Like all medicines, this vaccine can cause side effects, although not everybody gets them. In clinical studies with the vaccine, most side effects were mild to moderate in nature and resolved within a few days with some still present a week after vaccination.

If side effects such as pain and/or fever are troublesome, medicines containing paracetamol can be taken.

Side effects that occurred during clinical trials with COVID 19 Vaccine AstraZeneca were as follows:

Very Common (may affect more than 1 in 10 people)

• tenderness, pain, warmth, itching or bruising where the injection is given
• generally feeling unwell
• feeling tired (fatigue)
• chills or feeling feverish
• headache
• feeling sick (nausea)
• joint pain or muscle ache

 

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, Buckwheat said:

Well, these reports about AZ are not making me feel calmer.

There is always an overabundance of caution with these things.  Millions of people have had the AZ vaccine and are fine.  But the Danish authorities, in this case, have to do the usual due diligence when something unusual occurs.  Statistically (I imagine) it would be more unusual if there wasn't a need for these sort of investigations when it comes to a new medical product.

I think most people have a good idea of the side-effects.  Certainly the first question asked after people I know have had it!

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Buckwheat said:

Well, these reports about AZ are not making me feel calmer.

I don't think you should be too worry about it. They are still too few cases to make a conclusion so the risk is probably very low.

Still, one should wonder why it's happening (if it's happening) in continental Europe (afaik there are cases in Austria, Denmark and Greece) and not in the millions vaccinated in UK.

1 hour ago, Leap said:

Well, as I said, this is being clearly conveyed by the NHS staff giving out vaccines including in documentation. I think that is transparent enough, and I think that it would do more harm than good to have Boris Johnson or Matt Hancock talk about how awful it might make you feel for a day or so.

That the NHS is behind these guidelines is certainly a million better than any politico.

[Fragile Bird]

The CEO of Pfizer, Albert Bourla, is on CNBC right now talking about results out of Israel and he says the vaccine is 97% effective against getting symptomatic (and mild) Covid-19 and 94% effective against getting asymptomatic Covid-19.

He also believes you’ll need to get an annual booster shot.

He expects they’ll make 2 B more doses this year and their annualized rate now that manufacturing is running smoothly will be 3 B doses.

He was also asked about the profit motive, Pfizer making more money than other companies. He says that because they did not take any development money from any government, they took the risk and should make profit, and besides that, the benefit of saving economies around the world is worth the price of the vaccine.

[Zorral]

I have an appointment for my first shot this morning.  At a place within convenient walking distance, run very differently from the pharmacy where Partner's first was administered yesterday. Am swoggled.  Will cancel then, the Javits Center next month's appointment.

This appointment showed up due to a cadre of friends yesterday determined that Partner and I stay in sync with this.  They just punched and punched and punched, and this one appeared and dear amigo, partner, neighbor-across-the-street went for it, registering as me with all my info.  They center even sent me an appointment reminder this AM.

Partner, so far, no side effects -- the Pfizer vaccine.  I'll be getting the Moderna.

And then I'm calling our mutual friend in Saratoga to start planning our Thanksgiving, the one we promised ourselves when we reluctantly admitted getting together in November for Thanksgiving was a bad move.

It's a year as of today / tomorrow that we all stopped seeing each other due to the pandemic.  This is a miracle, a vaccine within 12 months.  Still, as said, it feels far longer.  I have no idea how to return to a more normal life (of course we can't go back yet, and maybe never, to what it was Before, but still ....).  There's a certain torpor that has now set in in terms of being in the presence of other people that I can't quite imagine getting over.  Well, there's the teaching thing .... I cannot express yet how much relief I will be feeling knowing I won't have to confront the kids back from Florida / Mexico, / Etc. and spring break without being vaccinated.

I / we couldn't ever have gotten through this without our friends.  But so many, friends and family, still didn't get through this.  I am thinking of our nursing niece in Tucson, who died because people in AZ were too damned free to wear a mask and social distance.

 

 

[Buckwheat]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Yes, these are all symptoms associated with the vaccine. Here is a list for the AZ one from Gov.uk ( scroll down to point 4), as you can see, the ones you mention are all under 'very common'-  more than 1/10 people. Hope you feel better soon!

Thanks! And for the link too. Yep, these side effects seem to be common - I heard some of the other coworkers that had the vaccination yesterday are out with the same today as well. I also shortly had a decreased appetite, which is listed under uncommon side effects, but as soon as I took some pills to lower the fever and my temperature dropped a bit, the appetite came back.

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Am swoggled. 

Excuse me, but what does this mean to you? The definitions I found by Googling either refer to "extreme drunkenness" or oral sex, and I don't think you mean either of those from the context here. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

A laugh emoticon just doesn't seem to be enough here.

[Larry of the Lawn]

either way, swoggle me, baby

[Fragile Bird]

It sounds like someone took the British snog down a different path...