What are your favorite ships?

[CamiloRP]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

As of now hes clearly not a villain

He dreams about murdering and raping people, he has sex with slaves, which he knows it's rape, he gets turned on by women being afraid of him and he does that whole thing with Aegon which I think it was just for chaos's sake?

 

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Omg facts! Like 90% of the reason I want Dany to win is so she can properly reward the captain of the Cinnamon Wind.

I agree about the kids too

Cinnamon Wind and Black Betha are number two and three in my ship ranking, but Silence, oh man, how could such a simple word sound so terrifying?

[Hugorfonics]

29 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

He dreams about murdering and raping peopl

He never has clear cut wet dreams of raping Cersei.

He wants to kill her, sure. But feelings mutual

31 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

, he has sex with slaves, which he knows it's rape,

I dont think he does. Well at least not Illyrios but for sure the one in Volantis, the second time.

Thing is, with both events, Tyrions losing his mind. At the darkest parts of his life he thinks it only right to ascend further into darkness. 

This isnt villainy, its a sickness. Besides the villains in this scenario is Illyrio and the masters of Volantis

36 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

he does that whole thing with Aegon which I think it was just for chaos's sake?

When you play game of thrones there is no middle ground.

But its not like Tyrion has no love for the guy, he did save his life after all

37 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

Cinnamon Wind and Black Betha are number two and three in my ship ranking, but Silence, oh man, how could such a simple word sound so terrifying?

For real

[James West]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:28 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So if you are part of a fandom, it stands to reason that you have a few couples that you ship. Now this isn't to start a shipping war, and I really don't want any ship to ship combat here, just people saying what their favorite ships are. Mine are:

- Valjon (yes I did make that up, I have no idea if that's the official name, but hey, I'm a Les Mis fan)

- Sansa and Aegon. I have no idea how this one is even called. Sangon? Aegsan? No idea, but they're both some of the few decent people in Westeros, and this one has a very real chance of happening for reasons I will point out in a future thread.

- Stannis and Dany. This is complete and utter crackpot, but the idea of those two interacting, or worse married, is so damn funny to me.

Anyways, what are yours?

I like Daenerys Targaryen and Willas Tyrell.  Willas has been silent but he didn't hold a grudge against the Martells for his injury.  He seems an okay sort. 

Arya disobeyed the faceless men when she killed Dareon and Jon betrayed the night's watch for Arya.  I say just let them have what they want.  Remove the tension clouding over the plot and just let them have each other.  They can be Nights king and Nights' queen if they so desire.  Lord and Lady Snow in Winterfell.  Arya and Jon. 

Big Walder Frey and Missandei

Tyrion Lannister and Penny

[Alyn Oakenfist]

3 minutes ago, James West said:

I like Daenerys Targaryen and Willas Tyrell.  Willas has been silent but he didn't hold a grudge against the Martells for his injury.  He seems an okay sort. 

I mean he's a carboard cut out given what we know right now, but yes, if she doesn't want to share power with Aegon or Jon, her best bet is Willas, being from a powerful family, a decent guy by all accounts, and very unlikely to overthrow her due to his infirmity, and not being seem as a "proper ruler" by Westeros.

3 minutes ago, James West said:

Arya disobeyed the faceless men when she killed Dareon and Jon betrayed the night's watch for Arya.  I say just let them have what they want.  Remove the tension clouding over the plot and just let them have each other.  They can be Nights king and Nights' queen if they so desire.  Lord and Lady Snow in Winterfell.  Arya and Jon. 

Just when I thought we were making progress...

[Nathan Stark]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

True. He goes through phases of heroic morality.

At no point does Tyrion ever go through phases of "heroic morality." 

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

As of now hes clearly not a villain

He kills his father, rapes a slave girl because she is disgusted by him, expresses a firm desire to commit rape in the future, and convinces fAegon to start a war in Westeros just for shits and giggles. That's a villian, plain and simple.

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Like Sansa

Sansa has not done murder yet, and only has a 50/50 chance of commiting it in the future. More likely she will try to save Sweetrobin. Either way, no. Sansa is not headed down a nihilistic and depraved path like Tyrion. She still has a functioning moral conscience.

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Shes not his sister

Cersei is Tyrion's sister, and Tyrion wants to rape her. He has commited rape twice in the past, and hopes to do it in the future. That puts Sansa at risk if she ever encounters him again.

I get why people love Tyrion. I really do. He used to be a favorite of mine as well. The more I think about him and his actions in the text though, the less sympathetic he becomes. I see no reason to doubt George's judgement in this case, since he himself refers to Tyrion as one of the bad guys. We are in Tyrion's head, so his actions have sympathetic motivations, but that doesn't mean he isn't a bad guy.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

3 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

The more I think about him and his actions in the text though, the less sympathetic he becomes. I see no reason to doubt George's judgement in this case, since he himself refers to Tyrion as one of the bad guys. We are in Tyrion's head, so his actions have sympathetic motivations, but that doesn't mean he isn't a bad guy.

Yeah, same here. And while generally he was and still is a smart character with a somewhat level moral compass, in regards to women, I think he'd be right at home on r/incel.

[Lady Dacey]

21 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

 Silence, oh man, how could such a simple word sound so terrifying?

I published a book titled Silence when I was thirteen, which was a mistake, ever since the word just sounds stupid to me.

[Nathan Stark]

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yeah, same here. And while generally he was and still is a smart character with a somewhat level moral compass, in regards to women, I think he'd be right at home on r/incel.

Yup. There's a lot of built in misogyny that Tyrion has. He inherited it Tywin in all likelihood who generally treated women like shit. I think the fact that Tyrion is smart and even modern in his thinking blinds a lot of readers to the fact that he is in many ways deeply immoral 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

Yup. There's a lot of built in misogyny that Tyrion has. He inherited it Tywin in all likelihood who generally treated women like shit. I think the fact that Tyrion is smart and even modern in his thinking blinds a lot of readers to the fact that he is in many ways deeply immoral 

Exactly. He often mops around about how women aren't attracted to him, and fair enough when you're ugly like that I can see the pain, but he treats it like a personal affront, like he's actually entitled to their love and attraction, and they're mean evil bitches for not giving it to him. As I said, peak incel.

[SeanF]

11 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Exactly. He often mops around about how women aren't attracted to him, and fair enough when you're ugly like that I can see the pain, but he treats it like a personal affront, like he's actually entitled to their love and attraction, and they're mean evil bitches for not giving it to him. As I said, peak incel.

Tyrion in book five would not have held back from consummating his marriage with Sansa, I think.  I hope they never meet again.  

Tyrion is not Aaron the Moor.  I do think he is very much Richard III or Iago.  

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Tyrion in book five would not have held back from consummating his marriage with Sansa, I think.  I hope they never meet again.  

Tyrion is not Aaron the Moor.  I do think he is very much Richard III or Iago.  

Agreed, though I think he's more Iago than anything else. Richard wouldn't have done most of the stuff Tyrion did.

[SeanF]

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

At no point does Tyrion ever go through phases of "heroic morality." 

He kills his father, rapes a slave girl because she is disgusted by him, expresses a firm desire to commit rape in the future, and convinces fAegon to start a war in Westeros just for shits and giggles. That's a villian, plain and simple.

Sansa has not done murder yet, and only has a 50/50 chance of commiting it in the future. More likely she will try to save Sweetrobin. Either way, no. Sansa is not headed down a nihilistic and depraved path like Tyrion. She still has a functioning moral conscience.

Cersei is Tyrion's sister, and Tyrion wants to rape her. He has commited rape twice in the past, and hopes to do it in the future. That puts Sansa at risk if she ever encounters him again.

I get why people love Tyrion. I really do. He used to be a favorite of mine as well. The more I think about him and his actions in the text though, the less sympathetic he becomes. I see no reason to doubt George's judgement in this case, since he himself refers to Tyrion as one of the bad guys. We are in Tyrion's head, so his actions have sympathetic motivations, but that doesn't mean he isn't a bad guy.

It takes a long time to start questioning his actions.  I got so hooked on his story in A Game of Thrones, when I first read it, that it did not really occur to me that he was doing bad things from quite early on. Because he is unfairly maligned for being a dwarf, it takes a while to realise he treats it as his get out of jail card.

Even early on, there is malice in him, such as laughing at Marsha Heddle’s corpse, and arming the Mountain Clans to hurt the Vale.  And, he’s thrilled at the chance to serve his father, who has just ordered atrocities in the Riverlands.

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Agreed, though I think he's more Iago than anything else. Richard wouldn't have done most of the stuff Tyrion did.

You can imagine how awful that scene would have been.

”He grinned as he saw the fear in Sansa’s eyes.  If I cannot make her love me, I can at least be her worst nightmare.”

[Alyn Oakenfist]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

”He grinned as he saw the fear in Sansa’s eyes.  If I cannot make her love me, I can at least be her worst nightmare.”

Lol, I can actually Tyrion behaving like this if ADWD Tyrion was there at the wedding.

Yeah, I really don't want him and Sansa to meet again. Sansa deserves better (hopefully Pod or Aegon)

[SeanF]

8 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

 

Sansa has not done murder yet, and only has a 50/50 chance of commiting it in the future. More likely she will try to save Sweetrobin. Either way, no. Sansa is not headed down a nihilistic and depraved path like Tyrion. She still has a functioning moral conscience.

 

I expect Sansa will have a crisis of conscience about something that LF has made her an accomplice too.  As well as making her his surrogate daughter and intended lover, he wants to make her as corrupt as he is.

[CamiloRP]

7 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

I published a book titled Silence when I was thirteen, which was a mistake, ever since the word just sounds stupid to me.

Where can I find it?

[YeniAy_Ottoman]

Jon and Arya... perfect match  

[Alyn Oakenfist]

50 minutes ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

Jon and Arya... perfect match  

   You know, I don't know what's worse, the number of people that actually ship this, the fact that GRRM actually wanted to do it, or the fact that he left a lot of little hints towards it all throughout AGOT and ACOK.

[YeniAy_Ottoman]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

   You know, I don't know what's worse, the number of people that actually ship this, the fact that GRRM actually wanted to do it, or the fact that he left a lot of little hints towards it all throughout AGOT and ACOK.

It makes no sense to say "worst" for the love of two cousins while we have a aunt-nephew love ship theory like Jonerys. (Of course, if cousin love is considered incest in your culture, I can't say anything to it, but it's legal and natural in my culture.)

The hints GRRM left off are more than a few little ones. There are huge signs and infrastructures throughout the five books. Think of it like this, we have such solid arguments that Jonsa stans steals our arguments.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

11 minutes ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

It makes no sense to say "worst" for the love of two cousins while we have a aunt-nephew love ship theory like Jonerys. (Of course, if cousin love is considered incest in your culture, I can't say anything to it, but it's legal and natural in my culture.)

The hints GRRM left off are more than a few little ones. There are huge signs and infrastructures throughout the five books. Think of it like this, we have such solid arguments that Jonsa stans steals our arguments.

The problem isn't that they're cousins, the problem is that they grew up and love each other as siblings.