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DCEU: The Hare's Regret


JGP

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So, anyone else seen this?

Too soon?

 

I've been dipping into Ta-Nehisi Coates Captain America run lately. Like, if JJ [gag] and the WB execs [heave] can back off and let Coates do his thing... this could be wow.

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Well, JJ isn't directing [thank christ] so that's something. Not sure what you're referring to with the first comment though-- do you think Coates is a lightweight in comparison to Snyder or something lol

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1 minute ago, JEORDHl said:

Well, JJ isn't directing [thank christ] so that's something. Not sure what you're referring to with the first comment though-- do you think Coates is a lightweight in comparison to Snyder or something lol

Hard to be worse than Snyder, though I like Man of Steel. I have to wonder why Coates got the job here though? Is the intention to make something overtly political? 

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Just now, Heartofice said:

Hard to be worse than Snyder, though I like Man of Steel. I have to wonder why Coates got the job here though? Is the intention to make something overtly political? 

Coates has been writing comics for a while now. Couple years maybe? Of course he has a tendency to apply a critical lens but he also [seems to me] has a reverence for source material, ie: his Captain America run. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he used the vehicle to examine the myth vs reality of the American Way, but who knows. 

Politics have always been a part of heroic genre comics. Complaining about that generally just gets a laugh out of me.  

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Here's a question: exactly how credible are drops like this from Warner Brothers? What was it, 2015 when they announced a whole slate of DC films? Green Lantern Corps never happened and might instead become a series on HBO Max (eventually); The Flash went through half a dozen directors and is only now starting production; Cyborg is unlikely to ever happen.

They announce Ava DuVernay will be helming a New Gods movie. Fantastic! That was 2-1/2 years ago and they are still working on the script. Plus Ava has worked on a bunch of other things in the mean time.  

Not to mention all the false reporting related to ZSJL that was taking place right up to the moment it was announced, (the November screening was a disaster, it will never happen, WB will never work with him again), and after, (He's going reuse some of Whedon's footage, WB refused additional photography, Affleck not returning, etc.). All from "Studio insiders" and "credible sources".

The timing of this is also interesting.

Even money says this will become yet another WB CBM that comes to nothing; JL: Mortal, Superman: Flyby, Superman Lives, Brett Ratner's Superman project, and Whedon's infamous WW script, to name a few.

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Seems to be assumed that just because Ta-Nehisi Coates is the writer, they're making Superman black, which feels like a rather unpleasant assumption to make. But it's also an unreasonable one. He has no problem writing a white Captain America, and indeed has apparently written a pretty good run, one that in the spirit of the best Cap runs really examines some of the foundational aspects of our image of America. 

I do suspect that his Superman will have something relevant to say about our present moment.

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29 minutes ago, Ran said:

Seems to be assumed that just because Ta-Nehisi Coates is the writer, they're making Superman black, which feels like a rather unpleasant assumption to make. But it's also an unreasonable one. He has no problem writing a white Captain America, and indeed has apparently written a pretty good run, one that in the spirit of the best Cap runs really examines some of the foundational aspects of our image of America. 

I do suspect that his Superman will have something relevant to say about our present moment.

Well, although I highly doubt they would make superman black, I’d say given the fact they’ve hired someone who is mostly known for political writing , often on race, that the suggestion isn’t particularly out there.

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For what its worth, that is how the trades are reporting it.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros

I just wonder if the timing of the announcement isn't designed to distract from Nadria Tucker's recent comments. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

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3 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

For what its worth, that is how the trades are reporting it.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros

I just wonder if the timing of the announcement isn't designed to distract from Nadria Tucker's recent comments. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Ok well maybe I was wrong then!

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He wrote about race on Captain America without making him black. And yeah, he's explicitly saying it's the DCEU Superman that he'll be writing about, rather than a Joker-esque alternate where they can do whatever.

(Though, that said, an Elseworlds with a black infant Kal-el crash landing in the Deep South and being raised by sharecroppers would be something.)

@Deadlines? What Deadlines?

Pretty sure it's coincidence. Her remarks haven't gotten much attention, and it's about the CW and the TV side of the business. The divisions at Warner are all quite separate to one another, in a lot of ways.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

 

@Deadlines? What Deadlines?

Pretty sure it's coincidence. Her remarks haven't gotten much attention, and it's about the CW and the TV side of the business. The divisions at Warner are all quite separate to one another, in a lot of ways.

Her comments related to her experience with Geoff Johns. Johns still has some WB producer/story credits in his future (Shazam 2, WW3, possibly this new Superman film). A recent tweet of hers also suggested she participated in the Justice League re-shoot investigation. So, "Separate" but not completely separate.

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Ah, I missed that she got involved in the JL investigation. I was referring to earlier remarks in November when she complained about not having her contract renewed... 

I feel like Johns had practically nothing to actually do with Superman & Lois... and indeed, digging further, I see he did not. Her complaints about him stem from Krypton, apparently.

Anyways, I really think it's coincidence. Her remarks have had very little traction, while this deal with Coates must have been in the works for quite a long time. I suspect they also want to firmly establish that someone else is handling Superman before the "Snyder Cut" drops in March to head off any demands that Snyder stay involved. Feels like DC and Warner are ready to move on to a new take on things.

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There was the black version of Superman as part of DC's multiverse... there's been some minor speculation that Coates could use that version...YMMV...

At his core though, Superman is the immigrant and the American Dream story.  There is so much Coates could do with that.  

However, after Superman and Lois, I'm not certain I care about the DCEU version of Superman.  That pilot for the show, even with the minor trappings of the Arrowverse, really is the definitive take on Lois and Clark since the first movie in '78.  And I like both the Cavill and Routh versions of Superman.  But I've loved Hoeclin since he was introduced to the Arrowverse and Bitsie Tulloch is a revelation as Lois...

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4 hours ago, Ran said:

I suspect they also want to firmly establish that someone else is handling Superman before the "Snyder Cut" drops in March to head off any demands that Snyder stay involved. Feels like DC and Warner are ready to move on to a new take on things.

I think this is a distinct possibility, and transparently so. I wonder what the higher ups at ATT think about Warner Media people undermining their own IP. 

It's also not clear if this is a replacement for Cavill's Superman or an extension of the multiverse concept. There's already more than one Cyborg, superman and soon there will be 3 batmen after all.

It's a bit like Kevin Smith's reaction to the "storytelling cul-de-sac" comment in the recent Walter Hamada piece from about a month ago. "Why would you put that out now? Why not wait and see how the thing does?" A few people had the same question, but Kevin is considerably more media savvy than I am so what do I know?

It may also be more than just a desire to "move on". If ZSJL is significantly better received than the 2017 film, there may be some uncomfortable questions that need to be answered; like, "Why diid you guys spend $25-$50 million on re-shoots and rewrites to make the thing worse?" Did you see the recent Vanity Fair article? To say the 2017 film has been "disowned" is a massive understatement.

While they're at it, they might also want to explain why WB sat on Army of the Dead for almost a decade when Netflix apparently likes what they see so much they've already filmed a prequel and are producing an anime series based around it. The first teaser dropped 2 days ago.

48 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

There was the black version of Superman as part of DC's multiverse... there's been some minor speculation that Coates could use that version...YMMV...

At his core though, Superman is the immigrant and the American Dream story.  There is so much Coates could do with that.  

However, after Superman and Lois, I'm not certain I care about the DCEU version of Superman.  That pilot for the show, even with the minor trappings of the Arrowverse, really is the definitive take on Lois and Clark since the first movie in '78.  And I like both the Cavill and Routh versions of Superman.  But I've loved Hoeclin since he was introduced to the Arrowverse and Bitsie Tulloch is a revelation as Lois...

I've never been a big admirer of the CW stuff but I will check out Superman and Lois. It seems like a definite step up from their previous efforts.

This is what I find the most funny in all this. For years, I've been hearing endless commentary from various CBM related news sites and personalities about "red trunks" and how Superman needs to be more colorful, more light hearted, more "Donner-esque". So much so that it has actually soured me on the Donner films, which I've loved since I was a kid. I even saw Superman Returns on opening weekend in 2006 and really liked it. 

Now you have a Superman TV series that so obviously mimics the cinematography and style of those films it isn't even funny. And whatever Abrams and Coates develop, I promise you, "Donner-esque" it won't be. I wonder what those same so-and-so's will have say. I bet not a damn thing.

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40 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I think this is a distinct possibility, and transparently so. I wonder what the higher ups at ATT think about Warner Media people undermining their own IP. 

I suspect that AT&T is on board with it, in the grand studio tradition of the new boss wanting to toss out the stuff created during the old regime.

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It's also not clear if this is a replacement for Cavill's Superman or an extension of the multiverse concept. There's already more than one Cyborg, superman and soon there will be 3 batmen after all.

I had no idea. I've not watched any Snyder product since the atrocious Batman vs Superman. More than one Cyborg and Superman? Do you mean they have wrapped the TV show versions of these characters as being in a shared multiverse with the film heroes, or have they literally shown multiple of these characters in the same film? My understanding was that the Matt Reeves Batman film is not part of the DCEU.

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It's a bit like Kevin Smith's reaction to the "storytelling cul-de-sac" comment in the recent Walter Hamada piece from about a month ago. "Why would you put that out now? Why not wait and see how the thing does?" A few people had the same question, but Kevin is considerably more media savvy than I am so what do I know?

Smith seems to have a personal liking for Snyder and with his own past travails is sympathetic to him. But he disliked the Man of Steel film, basically said you have to be a life-long comic book nerd to like BvS (and you have to watch it twice, and maybe with a fellow fanboy beside you, to find the heart in it). I don't see how he can wonder why Warner would want to move away from Snyder. The biggest DC film successes they've had have been non-Snyder products. The HBO Max thing is a cynical exercise to try and win over subscribers and not the redemption and resurrection of Zack Snyder, IMO.

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Did you see the recent Vanity Fair article? To say the 2017 film has been "disowned" is a massive understatement.

Yeah. It was patently a studio move to set a narrative of "we've done right by Snyder, he had a lot of bad stuff happen, go easy on us". The anonymous exec who trashes Whedon's film is probably the same one who praised Whedon for saving the movie four years ago.

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While they're at it, they might also want to explain why WB sat on Army of the Dead for almost a decade when Netflix apparently likes what they see so much they've already filmed a prequel and are producing an anime series based around it. The first teaser dropped 2 days ago.

Had no idea it was sitting around so long. Huh. Very curious. 

I enjoyed his Dawn of the Dead, but the trailer of this one left me cold. The advances in VFX and the increases in budget have not done Snyder any favors as a film maker, IMO.

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6 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

However, after Superman and Lois, I'm not certain I care about the DCEU version of Superman.  That pilot for the show, even with the minor trappings of the Arrowverse, really is the definitive take on Lois and Clark since the first movie in '78. 

Wow really? I’ll have to check it out. Haven’t watched the Arrowverse in many years now. The trailer did seem surprisingly great, do I need to know much about their origin in the other shows? I know he was in the second season of Supergirl but checked out shortly after that.

I just drop by this thread every once in while for a good laugh on how much more DC can fuck up. Every move they make comes across as either desperate to mimic Marvel, or as some bizarre attempt to confuse their own canon. As someone mentioned earlier, didn’t they announce a bunch of completely different films to the ones we’re now talking about now? 

What they need is a fresh start and a Feige. Desperately.

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