Jaxom 1974 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: Wow really? I’ll have to check it out. Haven’t watched the Arrowverse in many years now. The trailer did seem surprisingly great, do I need to know much about their origin in the other shows? I know he was in the second season of Supergirl but checked out shortly after that. Honestly no. No need to know anything else. There are no specific references to Supergirl, Arrow, or their version of Crisis, though the set up for what appears to be the primary villain should cause references to all of it at some point. But nothing that has come before hinges on it, as the Crisis did reset things to give them this start. I think its possibly the most human story I've seen for Superman on screen in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: What they need is a fresh start and a Feige. Desperately. For real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Geoff Johns was meant to be their Feige as he essentially was for the comics 'verse at one point but it didn't work coz (1) he evidently has little idea how movies work and (2) his ego got in the way a tad and he went about pushing his own versions of characters and their worlds rather than the ones that made most sense, albeit in Shazam's case that did work well enough as much as I'd have preferred to see a classic Sivana. But remember when they greenlit a The Trench movie? Like, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Yeah, what you need is a film producer who was a genuine comic book fan but made his career in film. Fiege became the Marvel guy because he was a huge comics nerd who happened to end up working for the executive producer of X-Men and was made a producer on that precisely because of his knowledge. The trajectory of his career followed from that. They should try finding that guy. (Comedy producer David Mandel's a big comics nerd, I learned recently, but I think his sensibilities are more in the comedic, Shazam direction than the bread and butter of the studios.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 20 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: However, after Superman and Lois, I'm not certain I care about the DCEU version of Superman. That pilot for the show, even with the minor trappings of the Arrowverse, really is the definitive take on Lois and Clark since the first movie in '78. So I actually randomly caught the pilot for this last night. The show is..decidedly not for me. I mean, I expected the heavy-handedness being a CW show (tbc, I've never seen anything from the Arrowverse) - and of course was fine with it being targeted for a younger audience - but I still couldn't really get on board. And what's up with him wearing cardigans all the time? Is he gonna get a job as a college professor? I do think the idea of Superman as a father is good one. On that count, the guy playing him looked way too young to have 14 year old kids. I was happy to find out the actor is only 33. Also, he's the kid in Road to Perdition. That one makes me feel old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 hour ago, DMC said: On that count, the guy playing him looked way too young to have 14 year old kids. Superman not aging when his friends and loved ones do is a recurring plot point in longer-future alt-universe Superman stories and I'd imagine it might start coming up if this gets a few seasons, though not from the off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 hours ago, polishgenius said: Superman not aging when his friends and loved ones do is a recurring plot point in longer-future alt-universe Superman stories and I'd imagine it might start coming up if this gets a few seasons, though not from the off. Also, these are kids in an SF show; surely they must have been subjected to massively accelerated ageing at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 22 hours ago, Ran said: I suspect that AT&T is on board with it, in the grand studio tradition of the new boss wanting to toss out the stuff created during the old regime. Jason Kilar appears to be quite a supporter. If they define it as a success, We'll see more. 22 hours ago, Ran said: I had no idea. I've not watched any Snyder product since the atrocious Batman vs Superman. More than one Cyborg and Superman? Do you mean they have wrapped the TV show versions of these characters as being in a shared multiverse with the film heroes, or have they literally shown multiple of these characters in the same film? My understanding was that the Matt Reeves Batman film is not part of the DCEU. Both. Separate universes with different versions of the character and multiple versions in films that explore the multiverse concept. Matt Reeves is his own continuity while Keaton and Affleck will both appear in the Flash film. 22 hours ago, Ran said: Smith seems to have a personal liking for Snyder and with his own past travails is sympathetic to him. But he disliked the Man of Steel film, basically said you have to be a life-long comic book nerd to like BvS (and you have to watch it twice, and maybe with a fellow fanboy beside you, to find the heart in it). I don't see how he can wonder why Warner would want to move away from Snyder. The biggest DC film successes they've had have been non-Snyder products. The HBO Max thing is a cynical exercise to try and win over subscribers and not the redemption and resurrection of Zack Snyder, IMO. (roughly in order) Smith was actually a massive fan of Man of Steel as I recall. He was really disappointed with BvS-theatrical but considerably warmer to BvS ultimate, which seems to be a near universal opinion. What Smith is pondering is the timing of that statement (before the release), not the sentiment. And I doubt opinion on this at Warner Media is so monolithic. The biggest DC films success was a very loose Joker adaptation and that landed in WB's lap. Even when it did, it took two years to Green-light and they funded less than 50% of the production, supposedly in the hope it would discourage Phillips from making it. Phillips having to find partners was probably a good thing as it might have given him more creative control. The highest grossing R rated film in history and WB had to split the profits. Brilliant! In the meantime, they let Chris McQuarrie's Green Lantern and MoS 2 proposals evaporate. Of the "modern" CBM's, which I would argue starts with Bryan Singer's X-Men; Man of Steel, at the time it was released, was the 3rd highest grossing CBM origin story behind Maguire's Spider-Man and Garfield's Amazing Spider-Man. It outgrossed the previous DC origin film, Batman Begins, all extant X-Men films, and every Marvel phase 1 film except for The Avengers. Other than Joker, the post MoS "non-Snyder projects" are actually among the lowest grossing DC films: Birds of Prey and Shazam!. In fairness, BoP was likely impacted somewhat by Covid, but even then I don't see it crossing $250 mil. I don't really know what happened with Shazam, except that the critical praise was a bit much IMO. Saw it once. Aquaman and Wonder Woman? Directed: no. Involved: yes. WW84? Less involvement, and how did that turn out? I know my niece didn't care for it, though it's so goofy and baffling to me that I actually kind of love it. But Jesus, what train wreck. I actually haven't seen Aquaman. "Cynical exercise" or "redemption story", there is a demand for it. At a time when every streaming service is desperate for exclusive content, why not? I want see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 9:47 AM, Heartofice said: I really doubt they would go that far tbh What does this even mean? "Go that far"? Why can't superman have dark skin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, Relic said: What does this even mean? "Go that far"? Why can't superman have dark skin? Because a species of human-like beings living under the glare of a red giant (or was it a super giant?) for millennia can only develop white skin. Duuuhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Come on lads. I'm the last person to avoid piling on HoI and I have no issue with a black Superman but making him so is quite obviously a big and relevant change both in the real world and in context what with Superman directly representing a very white demographic and archetype. There's absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the idea that those archetypes should be white and in fact would be positive, but doing so would be a big step for WB and scepticism that they're gonna make it is perfectly warranted, even if it's coming from someone we don't like. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 hours ago, polishgenius said: Come on lads. I'm the last person to avoid piling on HoI and I have no issue with a black Superman but making him so is quite obviously a big and relevant change both in the real world and in context what with Superman directly representing a very white demographic and archetype. There's absolutely nothing wrong with challenging the idea that those archetypes should be white and in fact would be positive, but doing so would be a big step for WB and scepticism that they're gonna make it is perfectly warranted, even if it's coming from someone we don't like. , I think that's total bs. Making it out to be a big deal is the real issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 The press, the studio, the actors, the critics, various organizations, and many viewers treated the Black Panther as a big deal. They absolutely will treat a black Superman film as a big deal. FWIW, a separate Hollywood Reporter reporter said he had it confirmed to him that Coates's script would be about a black Superman. I'm guessing that this will be using the already-established black Superman from Earth-23 (Calvin Ellis, who becomes President of the United States and was created as a direct homage to Barack Obama) or Val-Zod of Earth-2 (from the same House as General Zod, but not his offspring), but it could be a brand new one entirely as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 I mean clearly changing Superman's race is a big deal, and would be a pretty divisive move. I'm not sure that can be up for debate surely? The good thing about DC movies right now is that it seems pretty comfortable having multiple versions of the same character flying around at once. If they wanna do a 'black superman' movie which deals with race, then they can just as easily do another movie which is Henry Cavill doing a more traditional superman take along side it. That means they are able to tell lots of different stories without overwriting what has come before or in the future. If viewers want to see a politically charged Superman movie which is about race then they can do that, if they just want to see your standard Superman beating up Lex Luthor then there is that too. I'd suggest that there probably isn't that much appetite for a Superman movie that deals with racial problems in America, but even if there was, you wouldn't need to make Superman black to do it. As has been said upthread, you can be far subtler, Kal El is from another planet, gets treated differently, there are lots of things you could do with it. X-Men stories often deal with race in a much subtler way and I think are quite powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 I'm not sure even Chris Claremont would claim that the racial metaphor in X-Men is subtle. It's also widely accepted that that mutant metaphor in X-Men works better as a stand-in for sexuality, rather than race - though even then it is imperfect. A black Superman story would clearly in the current climate unavoidably be politically charged. But white Superman stories are inevitably politically charged also. It's just that the politics in them tends to be less visible to white audiences. Yes, Superman is an immigrant. But he's a white man and so he can be integrated into US culture and even accepted as a role model in a way that a black Superman could not. That is a politically charged aspect of Superman's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 2/26/2021 at 5:57 PM, JEORDHl said: I've been dipping into Ta-Nehisi Coates Captain America run lately. Like, if JJ [gag] and the WB execs [heave] can back off and let Coates do his thing... this could be wow. Coates being the writer makes me rather excited. Picking a writer like Coates is the only thing that makes me interested in how this movie will pan out. I think JJ is an okay choice ( albeit a rather safe one) *if* he has a good script to work with and he's not involved in the writing. Getting a writer like Coates is probably one of the only ways they would get my money and make me watch this in the theater so I'm on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, mormont said: I'm not sure even Chris Claremont would claim that the racial metaphor in X-Men is subtle. It's also widely accepted that that mutant metaphor in X-Men works better as a stand-in for sexuality, rather than race - though even then it is imperfect. I think it's pretty subtle for a comic book actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Heartofice said: I think it's pretty subtle for a comic book actually. I mean, Claremont twice had Kitty Pryde draw the parallel by using the n-word on page. Subtle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Heartofice said: I mean clearly changing Superman's race is a big deal He's kryptonion, not a human Caucasian. They wouldn't be changing his race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Relic said: He's kryptonion, not Caucasian. They wouldn't be changing his race. You would accept in the comic books, cartoons and movies that Superman is generally tall, well built, white, has dark hair etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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