Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Rondo said: The story boils down to the coming conflict between Fire and ice. I mean fair enough, but that conflict is as far removed (geographically at least) from Dany as possible. 2 minutes ago, El Guapo said: But whatever Robb Stark planned on lopping off 13 year old Joffrey's head and nobody around raised even an eyebrow. Because as I said, Joffrey is a tyrant and guilty of several major crimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltharion21 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, SeanF said: We’re not talking about killing every Astapori teen. Most teens in Astapor are slaves. We’re talking about killing discrete groups in the Plaza of Pride, slavers, soldiers, masters, overseers, some of whom are teens, in a military action. Any Westerosi commander will kill teens when he takes a stronghold. Pod is a nice guy, but Stannis’ men would still have cut him down, had they stormed Kings Landing. Nothing subtle about this: Quote "Unsullied!" Dany galloped before them, her silver-gold braid flying behind her, her bell chiming with every stride. "Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see." She raised the harpy's fingers in the air . . . and then she flung the scourge aside. "Freedom!" she sang out. "Dracarys! Dracarys!" Also children aged twelve aren't teens ( 13- 19) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracul's Daughter Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, El Guapo said: umm Joffrey is 13. I thought killing 13 year old was bad. and would be a war crime even in Westeros. Yet no one bats an eye when Rob suggests it. Could we keep this without Stark/Targ war hate crap?Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 57 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: That is what I am saying for so long. Why not 16? In our world, very few countries align the age of criminal responsibility with the age of majority. In England and Wales, the age of criminal responsibility is 10. In much of the US, it’s 6 or 7. Juveniles are more leniently treated than adults, but Martin’s is a crapsack world. In medieval England, a 9 year old might have been hanged for theft. A 13 year old certainly would be. No one in Martin’s world would hesitate to execute a 13 year felon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean fair enough, but that conflict is as far removed (geographically at least) from Dany as possible. Because as I said, Joffrey is a tyrant and guilty of several major crimes How can Joffrey be guilty of some major crimes if the age of majority is 16? Shouldn't Robb want to cut off his regent's head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, El Guapo said: Shouldn't Robb want to cut off his regent's head? Did the regent order Ned get beheaded? Just now, El Guapo said: How can Joffrey be guilty of some major crimes if the age of majority is 16? Age of majority and age of criminal liability aren't the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said: Could we keep this without Stark/Targ war hate crap?Please? In a word no. If peoplw are going to claim that this would never happen in Westeros because the "age of majority" is 16 than they should be able to prove it. I have now given several examples how this isn't the case. And I am not hating on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Did the regent order Ned get beheaded? Age of majority and age of criminal liability aren't the same thing. No they didn't that is the point. People were taking orders from a 13 year old king. Why are they doing it if the age of majority is 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Because: A. Jon has so little manpower he can't be picky B. This is a fight for the survival of mankind. All rules are off. All rules are off when it comes to slaves fighting back their masters. There's nothing wrong in a situation where the children of the slave masters are killed while the slaves are in the act of getting their freedom back. The masters certainly never followed any rules when they took, trained, bred, punished, and executed their slaves. Hell, they were murdering newly born babies, for god's sake! And castrating little boys. Everybody who owned slaves were guilty. Daenerys was right to issue that order. A 12 year old knows right from wrong. They were old enough to issue commands to slaves. A 12 year old has enough agency to be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: People were taking orders from a 13 year old king. Why are they doing it if the age of majority is 16? Because a number of factors, from Cersei not ever imposing her authority over Joffrey, to Littlefinger bribing everyone to make sure Ned dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I don't get why would 16 be the magical number on Planetos when you can finally get a driver's license or drink alcohol. I mean, the IT usually used regency unless the king turned 16, but that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Rondo said: All rules are off when it comes to slaves fighting back their masters. I mean we're talking about different things, one is when is it okay to conscript, the other is when is it okay to kill, but I get your point. Slavery does need to be eradicated and you cannot do it by saying pretty please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Daeron the Daring said: I don't get why would 16 be the magical number on Planetos when you can finally get a driver's license or drink alcohol. I mean, the IT usually used regency unless the king turned 16, but that's all. I mean quite a lot of people name 16 as the age when someone is "a man grown". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Tsarevich Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Dany got married in order for Drogo's help to attack Westeros. If the fact that someone doesn't make their own decisions means nothing then there is no reason why she shouldn’t die for conspiring against Robert. If we pre punish crimes that might happen in the future then we open a new can of worms. This concept was very interenstngly examined in Minority Report. Got interested in the bolded. Would you care to share where can I find this report and, more importantly, the part you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean quite a lot of people name 16 as the age when someone is "a man grown". Yea, sure, but it's not that from age 16 your father isn't responsible for your acts. He is, as long as he lives, and so are you, from a younger age than 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean quite a lot of people name 16 as the age when someone is "a man grown". I think 16 is the age at which you can inherit property in your own right. In this world, however, property may also cone with rights of jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, TsarGrey said: 4 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Dany got married in order for Drogo's help to attack Westeros. If the fact that someone doesn't make their own decisions means nothing then there is no reason why she shouldn’t die for conspiring against Robert. If we pre punish crimes that might happen in the future then we open a new can of worms. This concept was very interenstngly examined in Minority Report. Got interested in the bolded. Would you care to share where can I find this report and, more importantly, the part you speak of? "Minority Report" is a movie, not an actual report. It's a pretty good one too, directed by Spielberg, with Tom Cruise and Max von Sydow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Dont you think this sounds like Geralt? Lol Yes I do agree and as he said in the Blood of Elves Quote To be neutral does not mean to be indifferent or insensitive. You don't have to kill your feelings. It's enough to kill hatred within yourself. 14 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Its not outlandish or weird. Its noble and considerate, its also micromanaging a situation bigger then morals. I can agree with that. 14 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Ok spare the kids, she said that. She gave the age of 12, why not 13? 18? 21? I would say that 16, the age of maturity in Westeros, would had been the right one. Give the children the chance to change. They will be those who will built the new society. 14 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Dany has experienced assassins with poison, swords and magic. Ladys paranoid. Shes also disgusted by the city if red bricks and the training of its elite warriors, by fully erasing its trainers perhaps the art of making unsullied may forever die I understand that. But by killing the children she creates a cycle of blood that has two possible endings. Either go full Tywin and kill the whole family or Dornish rebellion with the family members that are still alive taking their revenge. 4 minutes ago, TsarGrey said: Got interested in the bolded. Would you care to share where can I find this report and, more importantly, the part you speak of? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7DGMgfOb8&ab_channel=MovieclipsClassicTrailers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said: I don't get why would 16 be the magical number on Planetos when you can finally get a driver's license or drink alcohol. I mean, the IT usually used regency unless the king turned 16, but that's all. Age of majority is a modern notion. The story takes place in roughly the dark ages but in another world. Children of the lower classes and of course slaves, work from birth to death. The masters make up the minority in the Bay but they hold all the power. They treat children as commodities. The only value life has is what the masters give it. So why not hold those 12 and up and judge them collectively as guilty. The value of that life is whatever value the conqueror gives it. It's hard to explain but the conqueror has the right to make that call. It doesn't look good from our Western European 2021 eyes but it is acceptable for Dany's time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rondo said: It's hard to explain but the conqueror has the right to make that call. The nonsense is so strong in this one even you have trouble explaining it. @Lilac & Gooseberries, what do you say, is "it's hard to explain" better than "Life and vigor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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