Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Dracul's Daughter said: That they mabye have needed an age number,not just to tell them to kill no children as they lose their childhood at such an early age and become so numb. Ah, well, that actually makes a lot of sense... Fair enough in that case, never thought of it. Thought you can still argue that the 12 age limit is waaay too low. Why not, 16, the age of majority in this world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: Why not, 16, the age of majority in this world? That is what I am saying for so long. Why not 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Oh no, I agree, and the choice between them is not really a choice, I'm talking less about choosing and more about condemning Dany for her shitty deeds. I am not condemning Daenerys or anyone for 'their shitty deeds'. I am not burying anyone before they're dead. Daenerys clearly has serious flaws. She's often superficial, but not as often as some may see, I think. Threating the maesters the way she did was supersticial, wiping out the slavers by the standards she made up, I think not. If Daenerys said that people under a given age should be spared, I imagine noone killed anyone without knowing such a thing, or unless it was necesarry. If it's not written down, we can't know but only think that it happened as it was ordered. I didn't intend to get into this, but looks like the thread wants us to (it always ends up there), so yea. Daenerys pretty much grow up without knowing how life actually works. She's pretty much in the growing up to the task phase, but you can see how she didn't chose to go for the cities of Slaver's Bay because ahe wanted to conquer, but because she felt it's the right thing to do, and that she's unable to leave people back knowing she could've helped. Yet there are people who say it all happened because she desired war, like they haven't even read her chapters, only knowing what happened. Nor am I fine whit suggesting that the wineseller's daughters are 5 year old children and got arrested while they were playing in their room for their father's crime. Yet, such things come up in the title, without any actual proof, and people start debating without knowing a damn about things, and trying to find the logical explanation of such things. It's easier to some individuals to go for it the moment they could. As a conclusion, however, Daenerys made several mistakes that she shouldn't have done at this age. And altough she has a quick mind, her past life pretty much narrowed her, sadly, but I do see progress (at big costs, sadly), but not only that. Reading Daenerys chapters ( especially the ADWD ones), I always felt like Daenerys doesn't desire queenship, rulership, wealth or power. It's justice to her House (or what she tought justice is back when little did she know about Aerys, and still does) and the people, home, and normal human relations what she desires the most, I think. She's the kind of person who'd be glad for a surviving Aegon or a secret heir, Jon, because she could hand over the responsibility she holds as the last member of her house. I might be alone with my opinion, but reading her chapters, that's what I've been feeling the whole time. It's always home what she desires in the first place. Not rulership of Westeros or Meereen, as we've (or the ones who paid attention reading Daenerys chapters) seen how she'd like to be free of her problems rulership causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracul's Daughter Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Thought you can still argue that the 12 age limit is waaay too low. Why not, 16, the age of majority in this world? That is what drives me nuts!!!! Why 12 as she does not want to harm children??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said: I always felt like Daenerys doesn't desire queenship, rulership, wealth or power. It's justice to her House (or what she tought justice is back when little did she know about Aerys, and still does) and the people, home, and normal human relations what she desires the most, I think. She's the kind of person who'd be glad for a surviving Aegon or a secret heir, Jon, because she could hand over the responsibility she holds as the last member of her house. I might be alone with my opinion, but reading her chapters, that's what I've been feeling the whole time. It's always home what she desires in the first place. Not rulership of Westeros or Meereen, as we've (or the ones who paid attention reading Daenerys chapters) seen how she'd like to be free of her problems rulership causes. I think first and foremost she desires a home and a purpose she never had. Initially she did find a purpose in freeing slaves, however that soon turned sour as she was forced to compromise more and more. So by TWOW I think she will go full steam ahead for the IT. Now, in regards to Aegon, I think that what you said is true, with the major caveat, that she will be incredibly suspicious of any potential Targaryen heir, with her whole treasons and mummer's dragon fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said: That is what drives me nuts!!!! Why 12 as she does not want to harm children??? Maybe GRRM just thought it was a good number and we're splitting hairs here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Now, in regards to Aegon, I think that what you said is true, with the major caveat, that she will be incredibly suspicious of any potential Targaryen heir, with her whole treasons and mummer's dragon fears. It doesn't seem she gives a damn about Quathie's 'prophecies'. Also note, that I was saying how she doesn't even want to hold this entire responsibility, so she'll likely want to hand over when she could, be it Jon or Aegon. 6 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I think first and foremost she desires a home and a purpose she never had She had a purpose. Restauration. But she lost sight of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracul's Daughter Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said: She's the kind of person who'd be glad for a surviving Aegon or a secret heir, Jon, because she could hand over the responsibility she holds as the last member of her house. I might be alone with my opinion, but reading her chapters, that's what I've been feeling the whole time. It's always home what she desires in the first place. Not rulership of Westeros or Meereen, as we've (or the ones who paid attention reading Daenerys chapters) seen how she'd like to be free of her problems rulership causes. I also tought this. "The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can find them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracul's Daughter Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Ah, well, that actually makes a lot of sense... Fair enough in that case, never thought of it. Thought you can still argue that the 12 age limit is waaay too low. Why not, 16, the age of majority in this world? Also,weren't they drugged and Dany stopped giving them whatever made them be emotionless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said: That is what drives me nuts!!!! Why 12 as she does not want to harm children??? Someone at the age of 12 on Planetos, growing up in the ghiscari culture can pretty much be responsible for his acts. People easily forget how evil children can be, and someone noble growing up in this society at the age of 12 has a worldview that doesn't value slave lifes more than what it's worth in money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 47 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Ah, well, that actually makes a lot of sense... Fair enough in that case, never thought of it. Thought you can still argue that the 12 age limit is waaay too low. Why not, 16, the age of majority in this world? Then I ask again why are 12 year old boys and girls giving weapons to defend the Wall if as you claim 16 is the age of majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Then I ask again why are 12 year old boys and girls giving weapons to defend the Wall Because: A. Jon has so little manpower he can't be picky B. This is a fight for the survival of mankind. All rules are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Because: A. Jon has so little manpower he can't be picky B. This is a fight for the survival of mankind. All rules are off. Ah so Jon Snow gets an exception because he is Jon Snow. Got it. Does Rob Stark get this exception too since he planned on lopping over 13 year old Joffrey's head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: Ah so Jon Snow gets an exception because he is Jon Snow. No, Jon gets an exception because he's fighting the literal apocalypse. Men, women, and children, it hardly matters against the White Walkers, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracul's Daughter Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Ah so Jon Snow gets an exception because he is Jon Snow. Got it. I think Jon finds himself in a different situation than Dany.That's why he gets a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Does Rob Stark get this exception too since he planned on lopping over 13 year old Joffrey's head? What does that have to do with anything? killing Joffrey is about justice, not anything else, and it certainly has nothing to do with either child soldiers or civilian casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: No, Jon gets an exception because he's fighting the literal apocalypse. Men, women, and children, it hardly matters against the White Walkers, don't you think? No I think you are using that as an excuse because you don't want to admit that the age of majority is not 6 in this world as you claim. And this "literal apocolypse" is not literal. In fact it is theoreticsl at this point as last time I checked there has only been one small battle and according to atleast oen person on this thread there is gong to eb a big war at all. But whatever Robb Stark planned on lopping off 13 year old Joffrey's head and nobody around raised even an eyebrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 4:39 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said: Now this topic has been tangentially discussed quite a lot these past few days, so what are your opinions about the dragons? Are they dangerous WMDs that need to be put down, or signs of greatness filled with live and vigor? Or more likely somewhere in between. If so, where exactly in between? Personally I don't have a concrete opinion, as I think GRRM wrote himself quite badly into a corner on this one, where on one side the parallels to the US and nukes are obvious, but on the other hand the dragons will be essential in fighting the Long Night. And much like GRRM himself, I do not know the answer to this particular conundrum. So, what is your opinion on the dragon? I would not have invested the time in this very long story if it had not been for Daenerys and her dragons. They are my favorite parts to read of the story. I continue to put in the time to read all the materials because I want to know what happens to Dany and her dragons. Dunk and Egg are not thrilling but I soldier on because Egg is Dany's ancestor. I picked my side long ago when I took up Game Of Thrones and it is on hers. They are the protagonists fighting against slavery. The story boils down to the coming conflict between Fire and ice. I want Dany and the dragons to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: What does that have to do with anything? killing Joffrey is about justice, not anything else, and it certainly has nothing to do with either child soldiers or civilian casualties. umm Joffrey is 13. I thought killing 13 year old was bad. and would be a war crime even in Westeros. Yet no one bats an eye when Rob suggests it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Greater, lesser or the same size is semantics. I don’t want to choose the life of one child instead of the life of another child before I give them the chance to change. Dont you think this sounds like Geralt? Lol 1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I really cannot see how what I am saying is that outlandish and weird. I am not saying that the slavers in general should be left unpunished to continue. I am saying if killings need to happen kill the adults and spare the kids. That’s all. Its not outlandish or weird. Its noble and considerate, its also micromanaging a situation bigger then morals. Ok spare the kids, she said that. She gave the age of 12, why not 13? 18? 21? Dany has experienced assassins with poison, swords and magic. Ladys paranoid. Shes also disgusted by the city if red bricks and the training of its elite warriors, by fully erasing its trainers perhaps the art of making unsullied may forever die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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