Jump to content

US Politics: CPAC - Finding new ways to bring America to Rune.


Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Anyway, US politics. Lets hope the bill is passed tomorrow and signed into law.

I just want to hear more Republicans cry about how unfair and partisan this has all been, like their more expensive and less needed tax bill ramming through never even happened.

Hacks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

Man, I had thoughts on this Cooper column on the Dems finding a spine, but y'all don't really do politics in y'all's own politics thread?  

Hey!  We talked about the significance of the bill - as a political and policy accomplishment - back on Saturday when it passed the Senate.  It's just..we get restless sometimes.  But yeah, definitely agree with the main thrust of Coopers piece, or this:

Quote

For those who remember what this point in 2009 was like, all this is very confusing. Democrats back then had gigantic majorities in both the House and the Senate, plus an extremely popular new president — but they cheaped out on their response to the financial crisis. Today, the party has a tiny 5-vote margin in the House, controls the Senate only by virtue of Vice President Harris' tie-breaking vote, and elected a famously moderate old white guy as president.

Yet despite having literally zero margin for error, the ARP is more than twice as big as the 2009 Recovery Act, and structured far more generously. Effectively, Democrats are betting that blasting trainloads of money down the income ladder will pay off both economically and politically. I can't believe I'm writing this, but it seems Democrats ... learned from their mistakes?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Hey!  We talked about the significance of the bill - as a political and policy accomplishment - back on Saturday when it passed the Senate.  It's just..we get restless sometimes.  But yeah, definitely agree with the main thrust of Coopers piece, or this:

 

Nice!  I don't want to get too optimistic cause lots of reasons that Cooper lays out pretty well.  But at the same time...like, total paradigm shift?

 

A thing it's hard for me not to wonder about, and I say this as a pretty big Obama apologist:  what if Obama and Biden in early '09 were like "anyone who is not 100% on board gets the wrath of the nunchucks" the way Trump is trying to do now with GOP?  Not sure this would have worked.   We are talking Lieberman, Ben Nelson. Blanche DuBois, etc...but it's interesting to ponder.

 

Totally just getting out of my lane on the comment on the thread...the Tywin guy always like this?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

A thing it's hard for me not to wonder about, and I say this as a pretty big Obama apologist:  what if Obama and Biden in early '09 were like "anyone who is not 100% on board gets the wrath of the nunchucks" the way Trump is trying to do now with GOP?  Not sure this would have worked.   We are talking Lieberman, Ben Nelson. Blanche DuBois, etc...but it's interesting to ponder.

Well, first, yeah as you mention, the Democratic party was significantly more "moderate" or even centrist in 2009.  Especially in the Senate.  Second, the 2009 stimulus was not passed through reconciliation - which is (partially) why it was passed about a month earlier.  Third, the more ambitious - and liberal leaning - aspects of the bill are indeed a direct result of the 2009 bill being too compromised with Biden et al. learning from that mistake.

Obama did try to make it appeal to Republicans, and I suppose he was technically successful in that with Collins voting for it (which is why it was able to reach cloture).  Luckily, almost the entire party has learned such efforts at "bipartisanship" are fruitless when the other side is never going to negotiate in good faith.  The entire party except Joe Manchin that is.

Anyway, I don't know if I'd call it a "paradigm" shift, but its passage in such a way is quite significant in clarifying that the party is no longer worried about playing the stupid deficit game with the GOP - which they only care about when a Democrat is president.  Further, I think even Biden recognizes the only way he's going to get anything significant passed is through reconciliation.  So now we have 6 months or so to try to get Manchin on board with at least somehow getting voting rights reform through with 51 votes.

10 minutes ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

Totally just getting out of my lane on the comment on the thread...the Tywin guy always like this?  

Unfortunately yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Unfortunately yes.

So it's like US politics plus the Tywin dude's other stuff all the time?  bro....

 

OK, another thing you mentioned that is worth thinking on, I think...if you're right that the Dem party has moved left since 2009...is Manchin or Sinema right now way, way to the left of Ben Nelson, Blanche, etc...back then?  If that's so, and I know this will make me seem like an apologist (but not for the Tywin dude to be sure) that maybe Manchin is not so bad?  Like, he's signing off on a monstrous bill to help lower-income people. strutted his stuff for like a day, but still signed, bla bla.  Media is like "look how bad Manchin Cinema is" and I'm like "holy shit, so much less bad than Ben Nelson Blanche Lieberman"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People probably saw it, but if you didn't, basically everyone in in the Nevada Democratic Party quit after the establishment folks (basically Harry Reid's political machine) lost to a slate of Sanders/DSA aligned progressives. They also took about 85% (~450k out of 521k) of the party's warchest and sent it to the DSCC. Now, I don't really care whether or not they stuck around, I'd rather see the progressives build their own staff, but this seems to be people who left taking their ball and going home rather than a standard matter of handing over the reins to the new leadership group.

Funny part about this whole thing was the name of the establishment group, The Progressive Unity Slate. Big time "Unity for thee but not for me" energy going on here.

A few links on the story

Nevada Democratic Party staff quit after Sanders backers take over (The Hill)

Say goodbye to the most effective Democratic Party in the country (The Nevada Independent)

Entire Staff of Nevada Democratic Party Quits After Democratic Socialist Slate Won Every Seat (The Intercept)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

OK, another thing you mentioned that is worth thinking on, I think...if you're right that the Dem party has moved left since 2009...is Manchin or Sinema right now way, way to the left of Ben Nelson, Blanche, etc...back then?

I wouldn't say way to the left, but yes, Manchin and especially Sinema are significantly further to the left than Lieberman and Ben Nelson were (the Arkansas Dems, Lincoln and Mark Pryor, too I guess) on policy.  Albeit, in Manchin's case he's still not gonna go for the $15 minimum wage hike.  Thing about it is, Manchin and Sinema are steadfast in maintaining the filibuster, so the best Biden and the Dems can hope for is to convince them to bend on that with filibuster reform and/or changing their approach to reconciliation on certain agenda items (most importantly, IMO, voting rights).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

It is dark by like 4:00pm all winter up here anyway, who cares what the clock says

You are looking at teh wrong end of darkness there.

The issue is the rise and shine, which is such a joy in total darkness. Now imagine having to get up an hour earlier in winter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

I wouldn't say way to the left, but yes, Manchin and especially Sinema are significantly further to the left than Lieberman and Ben Nelson were (the Arkansas Dems, Lincoln and Mark Pryor, too I guess) on policy.  Albeit, in Manchin's case he's still not gonna go for the $15 minimum wage hike.  Thing about it is, Manchin and Sinema are steadfast in maintaining the filibuster, so the best Biden and the Dems can hope for is to convince them to bend on that with filibuster reform and/or changing their approach to reconciliation on certain agenda items (most importantly, IMO, voting rights).

Whoa, forgot about Pryor.  Are you saying that when Obama got to 60 ( and it was so fucking annoying when everyone acted like it was 60 for a full 2 years) that this was with TWO Arkansas senators?  So many other redish state people like ain't coming back like North Dakota, McCaskill, Landrue (sp), Rockefeller, Indiana something, Iowa something....

Sure, some states like AZ and VA got bluer, but probably not enough...looks bleak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You are looking at teh wrong end of darkness there.

The issue is the rise and shine, which is such a joy in total darkness. Now imagine having to get an hour earlier in winter.

Dude, new and all, but this is a seriously incoherent post.   Your postcount suggests to me that you know better, but what about who you are saying this to?  OK to just come at the Fury like that?   Peaking at other Fury stuff I gotta think you've got some inside joke stuff cus otherwise this is pretty fucking weak dude, sorry to say.  Love your handle though.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

So many other redish state people like ain't coming back like North Dakota, McCaskill, Landrue (sp), Rockefeller, Indiana something, Iowa something....

Sure, some states like AZ and VA got bluer, but probably not enough...looks bleak

Yup.  There is some tradeoff there.  Not just AZ and VA but certainly New England is much more blue, Nevada as well.  But if you look at the Senate map of the 111th Congress - that shit ain't happening anymore, and it's decidedly to the GOP's advantage overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yup.  There is some tradeoff there.  Not just AZ and VA but certainly New England is much more blue, Nevada as well.  But if you look at the Senate map of the 111th Congress - that shit ain't happening anymore, and it's decidedly to the GOP's advantage overall.

OK, I think I forgot Colorado and New Mexico too as like new blue places, but man, so many of the red senators when Obama had 60 were in places where no fucking way dude would we expect a Senator today, and that is really the issue...

Evan fucking BIIY ain't coming through that door in Indiana or anywhere else...

ETA:  Holy shit, recall that awful red-as-fuck dude in VA who said that slur at the sight of a South Asian decent dude....think how fucking dead that mofo would be today.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You are looking at teh wrong end of darkness there.

The issue is the rise and shine, which is such a joy in total darkness. Now imagine having to get up an hour earlier in winter.

We can rise and **glow** when it’s dark from our dewy skin undamaged by the sun’s UV radiation. Though I also recommend cultivating a lifestyle where you don’t have to be anywhere before noon, when the sun will be up even here in Minnesota all year but you can mitigate that with a moisturizer with SPF and that low stress crack of noon lifestyle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said:

We can rise and **glow** when it’s dark from our dewy skin undamaged by the sun’s UV radiation. Though I also recommend cultivating a lifestyle where you don’t have to be anywhere before noon, when the sun will be up even here in Minnesota all year but you can mitigate that with a moisturizer with SPF and that low stress crack of noon lifestyle.

Inquiring minds and all that:  undamaged just cause you're the Fury or just cause some other reason? 

Stranger dude cool or no?  Not quite sure on that one.  thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

OK dude, I am new here, but is the point that Manchin is now to the left of where they used to be that they all quit and are complaining?   

Well my post was about Nevada, but if you really want my thoughts about Manchin, I think he doesn't really have much of a ideology outside of what he thinks will get him reelected/will benefit himself personally, so I don't know if you can really say he is to the left of these people so much as the Democratic party is to the left and Manchin is a Democrat. To my reckoning Manchin is more about his brand of being a moderate/deal maker while trying to counter the leftward swing of the Democratic party.

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Yup.  There is some tradeoff there.  Not just AZ and VA but certainly New England is much more blue, Nevada as well.  But if you look at the Senate map of the 111th Congress - that shit ain't happening anymore, and it's decidedly to the GOP's advantage overall.

I think that over all, we are trending in the right direction, just getting away from the deficit hawking in and of itself is a good first step, but I think as things stand Democrats are still too obsessed with small scale technocratic fixes that do not have a noticeable enough impact on the lives of the American people to get them out of the whole Democrats and the Republicans are the same so it doesn't matter who wins" mind set that I think accounts for a lot of people checking out entirely.

I think that if we actually start addressing the root causes of economic precarity (this doesn't have to require the abolition of capitalism, but a boy can dream), people will feel more secure, be less susceptible to culture war shit because they won't be looking for someone to blame, and suddenly if you have a party that is making changes that you can see and that make your life noticeably better, it becomes a indisputable fact that electoral outcomes matter. This is a long term project, but as I said, in a lot of ways we are on the right track.

Oh, and start adding states, let's gerrymander the fuck out of California into three states baby.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Walter the Singing Wildcat said:

Inquiring minds and all that:  undamaged just cause you're the Fury or just cause some other reason? 

Stranger dude cool or no?  Not quite sure on that one.  thanks

Undamaged from barely seeing sunlight half the year, and everyone’s cool (or equally uncool depending on your perspective). Who doesn’t like horses? We’ve got herbivore solidarity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...