Star Wars: Now You Will Experience the Full Power of Disney

[Slurktan]

1 hour ago, Toth said:

Yeah, and even there Leia would have every right to say "Fuck off, Luke, I don't want to hear it". That Leia somehow accepted it off-screen and did it so much so that she even named her third kid Anakin really never sat right with me in the EU either. She should have named him Bail!

Though I can see Luke naming his second kid Anakin. Ben as Luke's son was absolutely fine however.

I'm pretty sure Leia's plotline in book two of the Thrawn trilogy specifically has it "on screen".  But then again I could be wrong, I haven't read that in over 20 years sadly.

 

22 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I always reasoned it that a force ghost needs to be tied to a force user in some way, as the three force ghosts we’ve seen (Anakin, Yoda, Obi-Wan) all died in very close proximity to Luke. So they can appear to him, but would struggle to do anything helpful beyond that. You could interpret Obi-Wan’s death as that he waited until Luke was nearby, then escaped in to … ghostiness, or something, before Vader could kill him. And that Yoda held on until Luke visited him. 

I’m trying to think of other ghosts, I know Qui-Gon half did it and was a disconnected voice. Maybe because he wasn’t tied to a user?

Kind of bizarre you are forgetting/blocking out of your mind force ghost Luke.  I mean Force Ghost Luke is just an asshole.  He can actually physically use a lightsaber, so why he didn't just kill zombie Palpatine is beyond me.  Or really force ghost Anakin should have done it but hey Rise of Skywalker is legit one of the dumbest movies I've seen in my life.

[Rhom]

31 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

I'm pretty sure Leia's plotline in book two of the Thrawn trilogy specifically has it "on screen".  But then again I could be wrong, I have read that in over 20 years sadly.

I had an itch to re-read them a year ago, so I stopped by my old room in my mom's house.  The first two were there, but I couldn't find The Last Command.  So I didn't start the series.

[Toth]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Leia is told who her father was in ROTJ, no? She accepts it then, and she never blames Vader, personally, for the destruction of Alderaan.

Well, Leia seems to be more focused on the revelation that Luke is her brother. It's... honestly odd that she pretty much completely ignores the implication of Vader being her father as well as if it didn't even occur to her in that moment (from a Doylist perspective, very likely because the writers of RotJ wrote it as Luke's story and didn't think of Leia having anything to say about herself, a damn shame really).

38 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

I'm pretty sure Leia's plotline in book two of the Thrawn trilogy specifically has it "on screen".  But then again I could be wrong, I have read that in over 20 years sadly.

I read it relatively recently and the Noghri arc wasn't specifically about Leia dealing with being Vader's daughter. There is just a throwaway line at the very beginning where Leia mentioned she had struggled to accept it before, but by the time of the story she had come to terms with it and makes use of it to get the Noghri to trust her.

(amusingly the Noghri in themselves are inviting a lot of speculation in regards to how much Anakin there still is in Vader. I personally think it's fair to assume that Vader genuinely tried to help the Noghri fix their planet, but when Palpatine wedged himself in and forced him to cede control over the Noghri kill teams to Thrawn, Palpatine went on to fuck them over to keep them forever under Imperial control, all without Vader's knowledge - admittedly it's equally valid to think that Vader fucked with them with the same reasoning, but in my mind this kind of elaborate scheme doesn't fit his style. Leia herself even mentions she has no clue who exactly of the two is to blame)

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

In fact, if you want to analyze the character then it seems to be pretty likely that he effectively stopped being a Sith at heart the moment Palpatine told him about Padmé's death. Thereafter he may have gone through the motions, pretending he wanted power, pretending he wanted to topple Palpatine, etc. ... but it seems clear that this wasn't the case.

One of my favourite interpretations is that Vader is extremely unique in that his core emotion that he uses to channel the Dark Side is his self-hatred, which in turn nullifies the Dark Side's inherent pull towards selfishness. So while I generally agree with everything you said, I do however think he was genuinely considering killing Palpatine out of revenge, but was aware that thanks to his suit he would never be able to do the deed himself and needed some extremely strong pawn to strike him down - with Luke being the most obvious choice of course. But he only got aware of this possibility after 20 years of being Palpy's lackey. So... he is a Sith, but one with severely hampered agency due to being just canned simmering self-loathing.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Toth said:

Well, Leia seems to be more focused on the revelation that Luke is her brother. It's... honestly odd that she pretty much completely ignores the implication of Vader being her father as well as if it didn't even occur to her in that moment (from a Doylist perspective, very likely because the writers of RotJ wrote it as Luke's story and didn't think of Leia having anything to say about herself, a damn shame really).

But it is still quite clear that Tarkin destroyed Alderaan, not Vader. Yes, Vader tortured Leia and later Han, but they seemed to get over that.

Certainly, it would have been great to see Leia deal with that ... but then, Vader was always pretty much the man behind the cruel murders of Owen and Beru and Luke could still believe there was some good in him, so ... no big deal, really.

Even more so in light of the whole Force thing. Luke did actually feel Vader's conflict, the good that was still in his father. That wasn't just some empty talk, it was real. So if Leia had ever seen her father again she would have felt that, too, one imagines. And of course we can also assume that, through the Force, Luke was able to relay his emotions revolving around the father in a rather accurate manner. They were twins, after all.

2 hours ago, Toth said:

I read it relatively recently and the Noghri arc wasn't specifically about Leia dealing with being Vader's daughter. There is just a throwaway line at the very beginning where Leia mentioned she had struggled to accept it before, but by the time of the story she had come to terms with it and makes use of it to get the Noghri to trust her.

The novel 'Tatooine Ghost' - which was written years later by Troy Denning but which takes place pretty much directly before HotE (Thrawn even has a cameo in the novel) - to deal with Leia's issues with her father. She has recently married Han and is struggling with the prospect of having children due to Anakin's history. And we see her and the gang visiting Tatooine, hooking up with Kitster and many other old friends of Anakin's, which allows her to understand that Anakin Skywalker wasn't just Darth Vader and is still a hero and icon for quite a few people.

It has been some time that I read that novel but it deals with the issues rather well. They all really deal with the Vader thingy in the family. 'Dark Empire' basically has Luke become Palpatine's apprentice to finally understand what the hell his father found so alluring in the Dark Side.

In any case, I still think it is completely ridiculous that anyone would view Vader as 'a great Sith' and idolize him, and especially not his own grandson.

2 hours ago, Toth said:

One of my favourite interpretations is that Vader is extremely unique in that his core emotion that he uses to channel the Dark Side is his self-hatred, which in turn nullifies the Dark Side's inherent pull towards selfishness. So while I generally agree with everything you said, I do however think he was genuinely considering killing Palpatine out of revenge, but was aware that thanks to his suit he would never be able to do the deed himself and needed some extremely strong pawn to strike him down - with Luke being the most obvious choice of course. But he only got aware of this possibility after 20 years of being Palpy's lackey. So... he is a Sith, but one with severely hampered agency due to being just canned simmering self-loathing.

Oh, I think I should have been more precise. I certainly think Vader could have, well, fought off his own depression and melancholia with rather strong dreams to crushing Palpatine, torturing him for hours, etc. ... but the man in the suit was only the shell of a man and, effectively, also only the shell of Sith. The Vader we get in ROTS before he is burned alive was a man who had desires and potential. He could have become the greatest Sith of all time.

But Vader is just stuck at a very cold and dark place. He lost everything he ever wanted, and everything he can still have, everything he can still have isn't something that has much allure to him. And that's only in part because he is stuck in the suit. The real big problem is that he lost Padmé for good. I mean, the idea that instead of ruling the galaxy with Padmé at his side he stuck with Palpatine of all people must piss him off to no end. Darth Sidious was just a tool for him, he wanted to use him to save Padmé and then he would have tried to discard him. The guy did orchestrate a fake war and made him help him murder all his Jedi friends. He wasn't as stupid as to not realize this.

It is a pity we never get to see how he reacted to the revelation that he had a son, after all. But it seems rather obvious that the outcome was pretty much inevitable - Luke (and Leia) were parts of Padmé that had survived. The chance that he could really twist them into evil carbon copies of himself were always pretty low. But, of course, it was impossible that he would do that after Luke met him the way he did in ROTJ. That's why that part of that movie is as powerful as it is.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Rogue Squadron delayed.

[Myrddin]

Huh. Seeing that Cleopatra is the only film she has in pre-production (unless WW3 is being fast tracked), I wonder if the script is having issues.

I was looking forward to Jenkins directing this, given her dad was a fighter pilot and her interest in planes. I hope Disney isn't getting cold feet because of WW2 underperforming. 

[Myrddin]

ETA: Disney lawyers removed the video. It was Ewan and Deborah Chow talking about Kenobi with some concept art.

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, Myrddin said:

 

What is up with that first line? is it just me or did they create "there's a  hunger for this character to come back" by editing other things he said. Weird. 

[Rhom]

"Have another swing at each other"?!!?

Sigh... I can understand doing something with Christensen's Darth Vader I suppose (not like he's doing any other acting these days) and I guess there's some story that could be told (but definitely doesn't need to) about Obi Wan; but for the love of all things holy, I hope their stories don't actually intersect directly in this series. 

[Toth]

Not sure I would interpret it that literally when at the same time they mention "There are Jedi hunters out there". And I think since Rebels they had the Inquisitors answer more to Vader than to Sidious like the Dark Jedi of old. My guess is that Obi-Wan gets pulled into some off-world adventure where he ends up fighting an Inquisitor while narrowly avoiding brushing paths with Vader. I... I do think they won't be so dumb as to actually have them meet.

[sologdin]

seems ill-advised.  

should we assume that D remains obsessed with O and searches for him as part of his recovery from the trauma of episode III, never suspecting that the object of his search had the mind-numbing ineptitude to hide on his enemy's home world, in sight of his own relatives?

[Corvinus85]

Above video is unavailable. What was it?

[Rhom]

10 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Above video is unavailable. What was it?

Just noticed it was pulled down.  Odd.  It was obviously an official release.    It was snippets of an interview with Ewan McGregor talking about the Obi Wan show and featured a good amount of concept art for the show.  He also mentioned that Hayden Christensen would be coming back as Vader and it was good to work with him again.

[Ran]

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 11/8/2021 at 2:50 PM, Myrddin said:

Huh. Seeing that Cleopatra is the only film she has in pre-production (unless WW3 is being fast tracked), I wonder if the script is having issues.

I was looking forward to Jenkins directing this, given her dad was a fighter pilot and her interest in planes. I hope Disney isn't getting cold feet because of WW2 underperforming. 

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there are budgetary reasons. Disney got decimated in 2020 and FY2021 wasn't exactly a banner year for them. Excluding 2020; 2021 was the worst year they've had in over a decade. They're also carrying a historically high debt load with Covid coming right on the heels of the Fox acquisition.

I'm not saying Disney is in serious trouble or anything, but with everything else they have in development, it might just make financial sense to push some projects back a year or two. 

[Myrddin]

I think you're spot on, Deadlines. 

I read this morning that Disney has been banking on streaming subscriptions and the number of new subscriptions are well below expectations. I don't think they realize that most people will be seasonal subscribers, not year around. I have kids, so we keep it, but we pick up and drop HBO, Starz, Hulu, etc to catch up and then move on to another service. No need to carry them all plus Amazon and Netflix. Their model isn't realistic.

[Rhom]

11 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

I think you're spot on, Deadlines. 

I read this morning that Disney has been banking on streaming subscriptions and the number of new subscriptions are well below expectations. I don't think they realize that most people will be seasonal subscribers, not year around. I have kids, so we keep it, but we pick up and drop HBO, Starz, Hulu, etc to catch up and then move on to another service. No need to carry them all plus Amazon and Netflix. Their model isn't realistic.

Eh... I think you're projecting your own habits on the majority.  Most people really will sign up and just not cancel.  Its how fitness centers, tanning salons, etc build their business model.  They make their money off the people who sign up but then don't use it.  

[Myrddin]

Maybe. But how many streaming services do you guys carry consistently? (This may belong in another thread) Every cord cutter I've interacted with online or IRL only carries a few all the time and swaps others in and out.

Regardless, Disney was projected to add 9.6 million subscribers last quarter and only added 2.9 (if I'm remembering numbers right). That's a aggressive model to add that many new customers every quarter.

If Disney is seeing less income than projected, delaying Rogue Squadron could be a result of updated budget oversight (though I'd argue adding new content to D+ should be a priority for their streaming aspirations).

[Corvinus85]

I just re-signed up for Disney+, mainly because of the $2 deal for the first month. I cancelled my HBO Max subscription.

I think the model for Disney+ for this year has been to have one interesting show run for a couple of months, one after another. That way people keep it year round, but not everyone feels the need to do so. Plenty of people will pile up a few shows at a time in a 1-2 month period, then cancel again. 

[JGP]

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

Maybe. But how many streaming services do you guys carry consistently? (This may belong in another thread) Every cord cutter I've interacted with online or IRL only carries a few all the time and swaps others in and out.

Uhm... hmn.

Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ [Starz add on], Apple+ [Britbox add on], Crave [with HBO add on, though that's being merged into the base sub, shortly] maybe another or two? Those are running subs. Probably because I'm lazy, iono. If nothing's really on cable I like having the additional options, even if I'm scrolling for half an hour looking for something that catches my interest.