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Mrstrategy

Best king to rule westeros instead of mad king/Robert Baratheon/Joffrey

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Jaehaerys I and Good Queen Alysanne were responsible for the New Gift and the only Targaryen visit to the Wall. I'm guessing they would have actually cared and tried to do something about the Others.

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Well, I'm gonna rule out all the Targ Kings that had dragons, because they'd know fuck all about ruling without them.

Now, all the conventionally mad Kings are also ruled out, aka Baelor, Aegon IV, Aerys II and Joffy.

We can also rule out all the Kings that couldn't give a fuck about the actual ruling, so no Aerys I, no Maekar, and no Robert.

This narrows it down to Aegon III, Daeron I, Viserys II, Daeron II, Aegon V, Jaehaerys II, Tommen, fAegon, Stannis, Renly, and maybe Jon and Dany, even if neither  has yet to claim the Throne.

Now, I'd cut Aegon III and Stannis for being incapable of actually gaining the love of their subjects, Daeron I for being a warmonger, Jaehaerys II because we don't know anything about him, and Renly because he's all show and no substance. I'd also cut Tommen for being a weakling and Aegon V for being incapable of reigning in his own family.

Finally Daeron the IInd is out too, because while beyond competent, he ignored the internal problems created by his father, and not only allowed them to simmer, but spiked them up by purging the government, and especially by bringing Dorne into the fold. The Blackfyre Rebellion is on him too.

So that leaves us with Viserys II, fAegon, Jon and Dany.

I think I'm gonna go for fAegon due to his empathy with the smallfolk.

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4 minutes ago, Groo said:

Jaehaerys I and Good Queen Alysanne were responsible for the New Gift and the only Targaryen visit to the Wall. I'm guessing they would have actually cared and tried to do something about the Others.

The New Gift probably fucked the Watch more than it already was. The Conquest forced the Watch into decline, as the constant wars that provided the Watch's manpower were gone. Now giving the New Gift failed, because the Watch couldn't properly defend it, and because by giving it to the Watch, Westeros was less inclined to help the Watch, leading to a negative feedback loop.

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13 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

The New Gift probably fucked the Watch more than it already was. The Conquest forced the Watch into decline, as the constant wars that provided the Watch's manpower were gone. Now giving the New Gift failed, because the Watch couldn't properly defend it, and because by giving it to the Watch, Westeros was less inclined to help the Watch, leading to a negative feedback loop.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think the existence of the New Gift is why the rest of the Seven Kingdoms have turned the Watch into a dumping ground for criminals and unwanted bastards. The declining numbers of the Watch are why they can't stop the wilding raids. That has nothing to do with the size of either Brandon's Gift or New Gift. It's really hard to argue that a larger Watch is more easily supported with less land to sustain it.

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Just now, Groo said:

It's really hard to argue that a larger Watch is more easily supported with less land to sustain it.

I'm talking more about the common Lord's mindset here.

"What the Watch has double it's lands? Well clearly they don't need us making any more donations, and these prisoners could be dealt with otherwise"

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2 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

Of all the kings westeros ever had,which kings  would be the best to rule westeros during the period that was rule in OTL 262 AC-300 AC by Aerys II Targaryen,Robert I Baratheon,Joffrey I Baratheon,Tommen I Baratheon and keep/Have most/all westeros support in long night?

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Iron_Throne#List_of_Kings

Good question.  The leading families all had a hand in tearing down Westeros.  Targaryen, Stark, Baratheon, and Lannister made very bad decisions which brought about the end of the Targaryen prosperity.  I mostly blame Rickard Stark and Robert Baratheon.  Their ambitions forced the Targaryens into a corner.  It doesn't matter what Rickard meant to do with his proposed blood alliance.  It was a threat to the ruling great house, the Targaryens.  The Lannister twins and Robert's brothers made everything worse over the course of the years they had the power.  Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch.  Prince Rhaegar had a very limited understanding of politics if he harbored a runaway like Lyanna.  It would have been for the better if King Aerys 2 had remained in power and then passed the throne to Prince Viserys.  King Viserys 3 marries his sister, Princess Daenerys.  Daenerys is stronger.  She will eventually get the better of Viserys and take the throne for the good of the kingdom.

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Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Prove it.

Read the book.  Use your common sense.  A king cannot allow one of his vassals to become more powerful.  That's not how power is maintained.  Rickard's plan was a threat to the Targaryens.  Use your head.  If you were a king, would you allow one of your lords to build enough power to challenge you?  No, you would not. 

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3 minutes ago, Bullrout said:

Read the book.  Use your common sense.  A king cannot allow one of his vassals to become more powerful.  That's not how power is maintained.  Rickard's plan was a threat to the Targaryens.  Use your head.  If you were a king, would you allow one of your lords to build enough power to challenge you?  No, you would not. 

As I imagined it, you have no textual evidence to prove it.

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Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

As I imagined it, you have no textual evidence to prove it.

ASOIAF was not written for kindergarten consumption sir.  Martin requires his readers to read carefully and draw conclusions.  Were you expecting Martin to write 'Pay attention kids.  King Aerys wants to keep his throne and his head.  He can't let the lords below him become more powerful than he is.  Because you know, if they did, they can take away his throne and his head.' 

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3 minutes ago, Bullrout said:

ASOIAF was not written for kindergarten consumption sir.  Martin requires his readers to read carefully and draw conclusions.  Were you expecting Martin to write 'Pay attention kids.  King Aerys wants to keep his throne and his head.  He can't let the lords below him become more powerful than he is.  Because you know, if they did, they can take away his throne and his head.' 

I can see passive aggressive tone but no actual text proof. That is not so surprising when someone use that kind of strong language.

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Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I can see passive aggressive tone but no actual text proof. That is not so surprising when someone use that kind of strong language.

Suit yourself.  I get drawn into these discussions and take them seriously more often than is good for me.  :mellow: 

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1 minute ago, Bullrout said:

Suit yourself.  I get drawn into these discussions and take them seriously more often than is good for me.  :mellow: 

I love meself a serious discussion. When is based on the text, not just mumbling around with no contextual proof.

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3 hours ago, Bullrout said:

Read the book.  Use your common sense.  A king cannot allow one of his vassals to become more powerful.  That's not how power is maintained.  Rickard's plan was a threat to the Targaryens.  Use your head.  If you were a king, would you allow one of your lords to build enough power to challenge you?  No, you would not. 

Most highlords became more powerful than the Targs the moment dragons died. We don't have actual army numbers, but it's fair to assume that the Crownlands have one of if not the smallest armies in Westeros. 

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7 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

As I imagined it, you have no textual evidence to prove it.

What textual evidence there is points to Aerys being paranoid about Rhaegar not about Rickard Stark. It might be logical to surmise that Aerys was worried about some of his high lords as well, but you're right. There isn't any textual evidence for Aerys being worried about Rickard Stark let alone Robert. At least not prior to Lyanna's disappearance.

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