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Angel Eyes

Why does Tyrion choose to go along with Tywin’s plans to marry Sansa to him?

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Posted (edited)

Exactly as the thread title indicates; why does Tyrion choose to participate in his father’s plan to marry him (Tyrion) to Sansa? It isn’t like Tywin is making Tyrion marry Sansa or Cersei marry Willas; the latter plan languishes for months before Tywin gets whacked. 

  • A wardenship of his own? That ain’t gonna fly with the Northerners; they’re the type to say a cripple like Bran should commit suicide. And Bran wasn’t born like that, how would they accept someone who was born with an infirmity and might have a chance of passing that down through his bloodline? Unless Tywin intends to throw Tyrion under the bus, which is just as likely. 
  • It didn’t need to be Tyrion; Tywin could have married her to Lancel or Podrick for all I know (I’m a Podsa shipper on the side) and he could have the Starks under the thumb of the Lannisters just as much. Tyrion could have arranged the match himself to get out of it.
  • Love from a bride? Sansa’s still with her head in the clouds with attractive partners (minus the Hound) and would be unlikely to accept a man who’s twice her age and belongs to a family who ordered the execution of her father.
  • What else am I missing?

Note: this isn’t a Tywin bashing thread. This puts the ball in Tyrion’s court.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Some of your points have more to do with Tywin's motivations rather than why Tyrion went along with it. I think Tywin wanted it to be Tyrion for two reasons. Setting Tyrion up in the North makes it easier to justify skipping him in the succession for Casterly Rock. It also would humiliate the North and the remnants of House Stark. As for Tyrion, why would he turn it down? Sansa's beautiful and ruling the North would be a big step up for him. He's not super excited about it but it does have lots of advantages for him. Cersei, on the other hand, sees her arrangement as nothing but a step down and completely resists it.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Groo said:

As for Tyrion, why would he turn it down? Sansa's beautiful and ruling the North would be a big step up for him. He's not super excited about it but it does have lots of advantages for him. 

I agree with the above.

 

To add more -  Tyrion does not know the Northeners that well and is not aware to what degree do they loath the bastards, cripples and broken things. He also believes himself to be very smart guy and loves to play political games so I think he may see gaining northern lords support as something exciting and challenging, rather than life threatening. 

Edited by eazy

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14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

It didn’t need to be Tyrion; Tywin could have married her to Lancel

We know, and Tyrion does too. Tywin says as much to Tyrion when they are discussing the matter. Tywin wants the North as close to himself as possible, and having the rightful hair be his grandson is the best he can get. 

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1 hour ago, Lady Dacey said:

Tyrion makes explicit in his POV chapters what he expects from that match.

And I’m deconstructing it. 
 

Also, see last bullet: what else am I missing?

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1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

And I’m deconstructing it. 

Why though?

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In the chapter in which Sansa marries him, Tyrion out right tells her, that the marriage is being forced on her and if she wishes to turn him down, he will find someone else for her, such as Lancel. She agrees however to marry him, on the grounds that Tyrion was kind to her and protected her from Joffrey in previous chapters, before hand. It's a horrible place to be in, but Sansa basically chooses the devil she knows, over someone else.

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7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Picture this from Tyrion’s angle.  He’s been living off daddy’s trust fund since birth.  You too would do what daddy tells you.  

Well, it isn’t like Tyrion hasn’t disobeyed Tywin before: general whoring, Tysha, Shae, stuff like that. I remember I opened a thread asking why Tywin didn’t try harder to stop Tyrion from whoring if he showed so much (public) disdain for the practice, like refusing him access to money.

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19 hours ago, Groo said:

Some of your points have more to do with Tywin's motivations rather than why Tyrion went along with it. I think Tywin wanted it to be Tyrion for two reasons. Setting Tyrion up in the North makes it easier to justify skipping him in the succession for Casterly Rock. It also would humiliate the North and the remnants of House Stark. As for Tyrion, why would he turn it down? Sansa's beautiful and ruling the North would be a big step up for him. He's not super excited about it but it does have lots of advantages for him. Cersei, on the other hand, sees her arrangement as nothing but a step down and completely resists it.

Let’s see: underage girl who’s likely underdeveloped and for whom childbirth could be dangerous (from a simple, pragmatic point of view), Northern mindset of disliking cripples. Tyrion’s going to be put at a disadvantage once he sets foot in the North.

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57 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Let’s see: underage girl who’s likely underdeveloped and for whom childbirth could be dangerous (from a simple, pragmatic point of view), Northern mindset of disliking cripples. Tyrion’s going to be put at a disadvantage once he sets foot in the North.

I agree although I don't think Tywin cares that these will be problems for Tyrion. In fact, these difficulties might even make it more appealing as a "reward" for Tyrion. As for Tyrion himself, these kind of practical matters are probably contributing to his lack of enthusiasm but there's still significant potential upside, certainly more than he's usually offered. This, I think, is the answer to your original question. Tyrion "goes along" with Tywin's plan because it's more than he's usually offered and there is potential upside. I forget if the marriage happens before or after Tywin has told Tyrion that he won't be getting the Rock. If it's after then I would say that really strengthens my argument.

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1.  He doesn't want to get on Tywin's bad side.  At least, any more than he already is. 

2.  It has certain material benefits.  Better quarters, more servants, and the like.

3.  There is no real compelling reason not to.  It's not as if he has marriage prospects lined up around the block or anything.

4.  Sansa is getting married to someone Tywin can control.  He has to get her off the marriage market to avoid her being used as marriage bait, or allowing someone else to claim Winterfell through her.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Groo said:

I agree although I don't think Tywin cares that these will be problems for Tyrion. In fact, these difficulties might even make it more appealing as a "reward" for Tyrion. As for Tyrion himself, these kind of practical matters are probably contributing to his lack of enthusiasm but there's still significant potential upside, certainly more than he's usually offered. This, I think, is the answer to your original question. Tyrion "goes along" with Tywin's plan because it's more than he's usually offered and there is potential upside. I forget if the marriage happens before or after Tywin has told Tyrion that he won't be getting the Rock. If it's after then I would say that really strengthens my argument.

It was after, since the conversation where Tywin says that Tyrion isn’t getting the Rock takes place in Tyrion’s first chapter in ASOS. 
 

I just think that the downsides are bigger than the upside and that Tyrion should have been aware of how much the plan could go wrong.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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12 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, it isn’t like Tyrion hasn’t disobeyed Tywin before: general whoring, Tysha, Shae, stuff like that. I remember I opened a thread asking why Tywin didn’t try harder to stop Tyrion from whoring if he showed so much (public) disdain for the practice, like refusing him access to money.

Tywin was not micromanaging his children.  A little more supervision during their childhood might have made a difference in Tyrion. Granted, given the times, it’s rather challenging for a dwarf to make something of himself.

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17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Let’s see: underage girl

Nope. In their culture she's not underaged.

17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

who’s likely underdeveloped

Nope, she's explicitly over-developed. 

 

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Tyrion wanted a reward and sansa and the north was it. As for the northerners disliking cripples etc lord manderly can't sit on a horse yet his men still obey him. Being a dwarf is minor inconvenience but no more than that.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, corbon said:

Nope. In their culture she's not underaged.

She is not.

7 hours ago, corbon said:

she's explicitly over-developed. 

For a thirteen year old.

4 hours ago, King17 said:

Tyrion wanted a reward and sansa and the north was it.

Bingo.

4 hours ago, King17 said:

Being a dwarf is minor inconvenience but no more than that.

Being a dwarf is much worse than Manderly being morbidly obese. Wyman is a proven man, the Imp is a Lannister.

 

Edited by saltedmalted

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2 hours ago, saltedmalted said:
 

She is not.

For a thirteen year old.

Bingo.

Being a dwarf is much worse than Manderly being morbidly obese. Wyman is a proven man, the Imp is a Lannister.

 

Yes but as long as he is married to sansa he can rule the north in her name being a dwarf doesn't really change that.

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