saltedmalted Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 hours ago, King17 said: Yes but as long as he is married to sansa he can rule the north in her name being a dwarf doesn't really change that. He wouldn't be able to rule in her name even if he wasn't a dwarf. His life expectancy would be very short. Dwarves are reviled. People overlook stereotypes if there are any redeeming qualities but the Imp doesn't have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 hours ago, saltedmalted said: He wouldn't be able to rule in her name even if he wasn't a dwarf. His life expectancy would be very short. His life expectancy would be short for the simple reason that he's a Lannister. For someone who is supposedly smart, he's really not (neither is Tywin). As soon as the North knows he set foot into their lands, his life is over. It's just a question of who gets to Tyrion the fastest. The same would be true of any child he had with Sansa. Gotta appreciate the Lannisters for their utter lack of knowledge on how the North runs or feels about anything. It's not hard to get why Tyrion agrees to the match because it's kinda obvious. 1) Beautiful, well mannered girl from a respected family that he would never ever get under normal circumstances. The only way Tyrion would ever get someone like that is if the bride's family is looking to take over (like the Tyrell's do with Margaery) Lannister regime. But normal matches in Westeros, Tyrion would never get a Sansa. 2) Can't have Casterly Rock but the beautiful child does come with huge tracks of land and Tyrion wants something big to what he thinks fits his name and accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 3/5/2021 at 4:50 PM, saltedmalted said: For a thirteen year old. Period. Quote "Your bosom will be as lovely as the queen's," the old woman said as she looped her string around Sansa's chest. "You should not hide it so." The comment made her blush. Yet the last time she'd gone riding, she could not lace her jerkin all the way to the top, and the stableboy gaped at her as he helped her mount. Sometimes she caught grown men looking at her chest as well, and some of her tunics were so tight she could scarce breathe in them. This is before her marriage to Tyrion. There are other passages as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Quote You shall never have Casterly Rock, I promise you. But wed Sansa Stark, and it is just possible that you might win Winterfell He wanted Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 3:19 PM, Angel Eyes said: Exactly as the thread title indicates; why does Tyrion choose to participate in his father’s plan to marry him (Tyrion) to Sansa? It isn’t like Tywin is making Tyrion marry Sansa Yes, he is. Explicitly. Tyrion doesn't truly have a choice. There is a long extended conversation in ASoS Tyrion III between Tyrion, Tywin and Kevan, where they discuss it and Tyrion's thoughts and comments are quite instructive. Quote "Tyrion." He gave a resigned smile. "Do I hear the herald summoning me to the lists?" "Your whoring is a weakness in you," Lord Tywin said without preamble, "but perhaps some share of the blame is mine. Since you stand no taller than a boy, I have found it easy to forget that you are in truth a man grown, with all of a man's baser needs. It is past time you were wed."I was wed, or have you forgotten? Tyrion's mouth twisted, and the noise emerged that was half laugh and half snarl. "Does the prospect of marriage amuse you?" "Only imagining what a bugger-all handsome bridegroom I'll make." A wife might be the very thing he needed. If she brought him lands and a keep, it would give him a place in the world apart from Joffrey's court . . . and away from Cersei and their father. Note the smile is resigned. This is not what he wants, but he knows it is inevitably coming. ANY wife that brings him his own lands and keep has the advantage of getting him somewhat away from his family - a measure of independence from the people he hates most. - Point to favour the wedding, even though he'd rather not. Quote On the other hand, there was Shae. She will not like this, for all she swears that she is content to be my whore. That was scarcely a point to sway his father, however, so Tyrion squirmed higher in his seat and said, "You mean to wed me to Sansa Stark. But won't the Tyrells take the match as an affront, if they have designs on the girl?" He tries an argument against it... Quote "Lord Tyrell will not broach the matter of the Stark girl until after Joffrey's wedding. If Sansa is wed before that, how can he take offense, when he gave us no hint of his intentions? "Quite so," said Ser Kevan, "and any lingering resentments should be soothed by the offer of Cersei for his Willas." And is unsuccessful. Quote Tyrion rubbed at the raw stub of his nose. The scar tissue itched abominably sometimes. "His Grace the royal pustule has made Sansa's life a misery since the day her father died, and now that she is finally rid of Joffrey you propose to marry her to me. That seems singularly cruel. Even for you, Father." "Why, do you plan to mistreat her?" His father sounded more curious than concerned. "The girl's happiness is not my purpose, nor should it be yours. Our alliances in the south may be as solid as Casterly Rock, but there remains the north to win, and the key to the north is Sansa Stark." "She is no more than a child." Another argument against... Quote Your sister swears she's flowered. If so, she is a woman, fit to be wed. You must needs take her maidenhead, so no man can say the marriage was not consummated. After that, if you prefer to wait a year or two before bedding her again, you would be within your rights as her husband." Shot down again. Quote Shae is all the woman I need just now, he thought, and Sansa's a girl, no matter what you say. "If your purpose here is to keep her from the Tyrells, why not return her to her mother? Perhaps that would convince Robb Stark to bend the knee." Yet another attempt to avert the wedding... Quote Lord Tywin's look was scornful. "Send her to Riverrun and her mother will match her with a Blackwood or a Mallister to shore up her son's alliances along the Trident. Send her north, and she will be wed to some Manderly or Umber before the moon turns. Yet she is no less dangerous here at court, as this business with the Tyrells should prove. She must marry a Lannister, and soon." Shot down again. Quote "The man who weds Sansa Stark can claim Winterfell in her name," his uncle Kevan put in. "Had that not occurred to you?" A carrot offered... Quote "If you will not have the girl, we shall give her to one of your cousins," said his father. "Kevan, is Lancel strong enough to wed, do you think?" Ser Kevan hesitated. "If we bring the girl to his bedside, he could say the words . . . but to consummate, no . . . I would suggest one of the twins, but the Starks hold them both at Riverrun. They have Genna's boy Tion as well, else he might serve." Tyrion let them have their byplay; it was all for his benefit, he knew. Sansa Stark, he mused. Soft-spoken sweet-smelling Sansa, who loved silks, songs, chivalry and tall gallant knights with handsome faces. He felt as though he was back on the bridge of boats, the deck shifting beneath his feet. Tyrion sees the byplay for what it is... Yes, Sansa herself is tempting - a storybook princess in a way, but Tyrion sees the dangers here, knows he is on unstable ground with this dream. Quote "You asked me to reward you for your efforts in the battle," Lord Tywin reminded him forcefully. "This is a chance for you, Tyrion, the best you are ever likely to have." <snip stuff about old attempts to marry of Tyrion> "If you will not have the Stark girl, I shall find you another wife. Somewhere in the realm there is doubtless some little lordling who'd gladly part with a daughter to win the friendship of Casterly Rock. Lady Tanda has offered Lollys . . ." A stick... Quote Tyrion gave a shudder of dismay. "I'd sooner cut it off and feed it to the goats." "Then open your eyes. The Stark girl is young, nubile, tractable, of the highest birth, and still a maid. She is not uncomely. Why would you hesitate?" Why indeed? "A quirk of mine. Strange to say, I would prefer a wife who wants me in her bed." All points in Sansa's favour, yet Tyrion still has the sticking point... Quote "If you think your whores want you in their bed, you are an even greater fool than I suspected," said Lord Tywin. "You disappoint me, Tyrion. I had hoped this match would please you." "Yes, we all know how important my pleasure is to you, Father. But there's more to this. The key to the north, you say? The Greyjoys hold the north now, and King Balon has a daughter. Why Sansa Stark, and not her?" He looked into his father's cool green eyes with their bright flecks of gold. And continues to argue... Quote Lord Tywin steepled his fingers beneath his chin. "Balon Greyjoy thinks in terms of plunder, not rule. Let him enjoy an autumn crown and suffer a northern winter. He will give his subjects no cause to love him. Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens. When you bring Eddard Stark's grandson home to claim his birthright, lords and little folk alike will rise as one to place him on the high seat of his ancestors. But gets shot down again. Quote You are capable of getting a woman with child, I hope?" "I believe I am," he said, bristling. "I confess, I cannot prove it. Though no one can say I have not tried. Why, I plant my little seeds just as often as I can . . ." "In the gutters and the ditches," finished Lord Tywin, "and in common ground where only bastard weeds take root. It is past time you kept your own garden." He rose to his feet. "You shall never have Casterly Rock, I promise you. But wed Sansa Stark, and it is just possible that you might win Winterfell." A pointed quashing, stic and carrot in one - never Casterly Rock, but maybe Winterfell. Quote Tyrion Lannister, Lord Protector of Winterfell. The prospect gave him a queer chill. "Very good, Father," he said slowly, "but there's a big ugly roach in your rushes. Robb Stark is as capable as I am, presumably, and sworn to marry one of those fertile Freys. And once the Young Wolf sires a litter, any pups that Sansa births are heirs to nothing." Yes, its an attractive possibility, even if risky and uncertain. Still he argues... Quote Lord Tywin was unconcerned. "Robb Stark will father no children on his fertile Frey, you have my word. There is a bit of news I have not yet seen fit to share with the council, though no doubt the good lords will hear it soon enough. The Young Wolf has taken Gawen Westerling's eldest daughter to wife." And is shot down again. Quote <snip a bunch of stuff about Robb and the Westerlings> "Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?" Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold. "The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them," he said, and then, "You will marry Sansa Stark, Tyrion. And soon." There it is. A direct order, with carrots and sticks on the side. All his arguments have been shot down. Tyrion is fully aware the risks and pitfalls and the unlikelihood of success in 'winning' Winterfell. Yet he is smart, and had always been good to Sansa, as she herself acknowledges. Could it be possible? Can't a man dream of good things? Can't he work to make them possible? So he accepts. And yet, what he actually wants is a willing woman in his bed, a partner. (sarc/)How evil of him, twisted little monkey-demon that he is! (/sarc) Do remember that, carrots and sticks aside, he still gave Sansa the opportunity to choose an alternative option that might suit her better. He didn't have the power to give her real choice, but he gave her what he could anyway. But she chose to follow through, and he can only honour her choice by then. Quote "My lady, this is no way to bring you to your wedding. I am sorry for that. And for making this so sudden, and so secret. My lord father felt it necessary, for reasons of state. Else I would have come to you sooner, as I wished." He waddled closer. "You did not ask for this marriage, I know. No more than I did. If I had refused you, however, they would have wed you to my cousin Lancel. Perhaps you would prefer that. He is nearer your age, and fairer to look upon. If that is your wish, say so, and I will end this farce." I don't want any Lannister, she wanted to say. I want Willas, I want Highgarden and the puppies and the barge, and sons named Eddard and Bran and Rickon. But then she remembered what Dontos had told her in the godswood. Tyrell or Lannister, it makes no matter, it's not me they want, only my claim. "You are kind, my lord," she said, defeated. "I am a ward of the throne and my duty is to marry as the king commands." Quote or Cersei marry Willas; the latter plan languishes for months before Tywin gets whacked. It languishes for months because unlike Sansa, Willas is a grown man and he (and his family) are not under Lannister control to force events at Lannister timing. The Queen of Thorns had a strong hand in scotching that match, apparently. Quote Lord Tywin cut him off. "Mace Tyrell has refused my offer to marry Cersei to his heir Willas." "Refused our sweet Cersei?" That put Tyrion in a much better mood. "When I first broached the match to him, Lord Tyrell seemed well enough disposed," his father said. "A day later, all was changed. The old woman's work. She hectors her son unmercifully. Varys claims she told him that your sister was too old and too used for this precious one-legged grandson of hers." Quote A wardenship of his own? That ain’t gonna fly with the Northerners; they’re the type to say a cripple like Bran should commit suicide. And Bran wasn’t born like that, how would they accept someone who was born with an infirmity and might have a chance of passing that down through his bloodline? Unless Tywin intends to throw Tyrion under the bus, which is just as likely. Yeah, probably its not. But he's clever and brave and noble (he thinks) and might just be able to win them round. Especially with Sansa's help. After all, he's always been kind to her, and with this will take her away from those who abuse her and take her home. Quote It didn’t need to be Tyrion; Tywin could have married her to Lancel or Podrick for all I know (I’m a Podsa shipper on the side) and he could have the Starks under the thumb of the Lannisters just as much. Tyrion could have arranged the match himself to get out of it. Tyrion could see that this was just byplay for his benefit. And he did offer to arrange just that. Quote Love from a bride? Sansa’s still with her head in the clouds with attractive partners (minus the Hound) and would be unlikely to accept a man who’s twice her age and belongs to a family who ordered the execution of her father. I don't think that this is looking at it with clear eyes. Tyrion, unlike the rest of his family, has always been kind to her. And done his best to shield her from abuse when he could. He's undoubtedly smart, believes himself to be kind (with a certain amount of justification at this point) and there is a reasonable case that he could possibly win if not her instant affection, her long term affection. The age thing is irrelevant - he's under 30, so the age difference is rather minor by their cultural standards. Her wishes as too partners have always been of minor concern to anyone at all. Culturally, thats the tradeoff for highborn women - wealth and security (relatively speaking) in return for arranged marriages. He is not to know how deep in the clouds her head is. Quote What else am I missing? Following the actual text. Its clear the reasons Tyrion accept are complex. There are big pluses, and he's fully aware of their risks. There are big minuses. Yes, there is (his own) wealth, power and independence to gain, plus a beautiful, nubile idealised partner. And risks. And little choice anyway. He accepts because there is little choice, no better option for either him or Sansa, and he probably rates himself a chance to beat the risks overall due to his cleverness, kindness to Sansa, and lack of Lannister familial feeling. And even then, he offers Sansa an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 hours ago, corbon said: This is before her marriage to Tyrion. There are other passages as well. She is a well developed 13 year old but a 13 year old nonetheless. @corbon His protestations were rather feeble. Quoting them does not ake them any stronger. People aren't comparing him to Cersei or Joffrey. 1 hour ago, corbon said: and he probably rates himself a chance to beat the risks overall due to his cleverness, kindness to Sansa, and lack of Lannister familial feeling. Which is completely delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 hours ago, corbon said: Why, I plant my little seeds just as often as I can . . ." "In the gutters and the ditches," finished Lord Tywin, "and in common ground where only bastard weeds take root Tyrion as husband would cloak Sansa in Lannister. Maybe a daughter to Tywin as well? 3 hours ago, corbon said: It is past time you kept your own garden Tywin wants a rooted claim in the North and the Lannister name to a new garden? Turion, Gherkin, Mushroom, bloody oak root, Charge of cisterns and drains, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 hours ago, saltedmalted said: She is a well developed 13 year old but a 13 year old nonetheless. So? The claim I responded to said she was probably under-developed. The truth is the opposite. She is over-developed for her age, enough to make grown men notice even when she is fully clothed. 5 hours ago, saltedmalted said: @corbon His protestations were rather feeble. Quoting them does not ake them any stronger. No one said they were strong. Whats your point? Mine is that marrying Sansa wasn't what he wanted, but the best option available for both of them in the circumstances. There were potential advantages, and risks, and he was cognisant of those going in (whether or not he was right in his estimations is impossible to judge at this stage, since he's not actually gone to the North as Sansa's husband yet) . Any analysis that ignores these facts is fatally flawed from the start. 5 hours ago, saltedmalted said: People aren't comparing him to Cersei or Joffrey. Neither did I. But Tyrion has every reason to compare himself favourably to them, or anyone else, when trying to think of how Sansa may see him. That doesn't mean he's right (he's not always as clever as he thinks he is), but it is a reasonable approach on his part. If you want to divine his reasoning, you have to think what he might think based on his knowledge of the facts, not what you think with different knowledge. 5 hours ago, saltedmalted said: Which is completely delusional. Thats an opinion. Not a fact. You'll note the "chance". But you of course are all knowing, and know with absolute certainty that "chance" does not exist, only delusions. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, corbon said: But you of course are all knowing, and know with absolute certainty that "chance" does not exist, only delusions. Bravo. I know more than you. To someone like you it might seem all-knowing. 1 hour ago, corbon said: Mine is that marrying Sansa wasn't what he wanted, but the best option available for both of them in the circumstances. Not "wanted" is being too generous. His arguments got stuffed within moments and he did not protest beyond that. Once he reconsidered he wasn't opposed to the plan because he gets two things which he wouldn't ever get otherwise: 1) A pretty wife 2) A great holding. 1 hour ago, corbon said: Thats an opinion. Not a fact. Completely delusional because he seems to have forgotten his surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 hours ago, saltedmalted said: I know more than you. To someone like you it might seem all-knowing. 8 hours ago, saltedmalted said: Not "wanted" is being too generous. His arguments got stuffed within moments and he did not protest beyond that. Once he reconsidered he wasn't opposed to the plan because he gets two things which he wouldn't ever get otherwise: 1) A pretty wife 2) A great holding. Sure. His explicit expressed preferences aren't relevant at all to what he 'wants', even when they match his past actions and his psychology. He's all over this match so much that he'll defy his father, and risk being married off to Lollys if only Sansa says she'd rather have the younger and prettier Lancel. But you know 'the truth', so I guess we'll all just have to bow to that. 8 hours ago, saltedmalted said: Completely delusional because he seems to have forgotten his surname. Yeah. Because there is no possibility at all that anyone in the North could be motivated by anything other than blind hatred. No possibility he could win Sansa's support after being nice to her always, no possibility that his kindness to Bran might be remembered, no possibilities for him at all. No possibility that he could walk into the Mountains of the Moon with nothing, yet come out not only alive, but with a private army. No possibility he could go from a Yunkish slave to a member of the Second Sons, manipulating who they fight for. Its amazing how delusional he is, how many possibilities just don't exist for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 12 hours ago, corbon said: Mine is that marrying Sansa wasn't what he wanted, but the best option available for both of them in the circumstances. According to whom? If Sansa had a choice she would be marrying Willas instead, even if it's just to get the hell away from the Lannisters. And Willas would be better for her. The only one for whom marrying Sansa was a good option was for Tyrion, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, Mystical said: According to whom? If Sansa had a choice she would be marrying Willas instead, even if it's just to get the hell away from the Lannisters. And Willas would be better for her. And is that an option available to her? No, It isn't. Considering what is best for Sansa out of options not available to her is irrelevant to this conversation. Note the qualifier "in the circumstances". Just now, Mystical said: The only one for whom marrying Sansa was a good option was for Tyrion, period. It was a good option for House Lannister - who had control of the options. Not for Tyrion personally, who explicitly didn't want it, understood the flaws in the plan, and was willing to go against his family if she chose the available alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, corbon said: And is that an option available to her? No, It isn't. Considering what is best for Sansa out of options not available to her is irrelevant to this conversation. Note the qualifier "in the circumstances". It was a good option for House Lannister - who had control of the options. Not for Tyrion personally, who explicitly didn't want it, understood the flaws in the plan, and was willing to go against his family if she chose the available alternatives. Viable alternative... Podrick? He’s an appropriate age for Sansa and his family’s sworn to the Westerlands and by extension the Lannisters, meaning that the North would still be under their control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 22 hours ago, corbon said: Tyrion doesn't truly have a choice. That's only true if he wants to keep the Lannister privileges. He can always run away. He can even choose to abandon his wife if he wanted - after all, that's what he did to Tysha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 hours ago, corbon said: He's all over this match so much that he'll defy his father, and risk being married off to Lollys if only Sansa says she'd rather have the younger and prettier Lancel. Could've-Would've. 6 hours ago, corbon said: No possibility he could win Sansa's support after being nice to her always, no possibility that his kindness to Bran might be remembered, no possibilities for him at all. He is a Lannister who has done a lot to keep Joffrey on his throne. 6 hours ago, corbon said: No possibility that he could walk into the Mountains of the Moon with nothing, yet come out not only alive, but with a private army. That is called plot armour. George isn't writing military science-fiction, the books are full of unrealistic things. Character motivations is far more important that pesky realism. Tyrion's army of mountain savages is insignificant to the main plot, beyond a few things like blinding Stannis' scouts. 6 hours ago, corbon said: Its amazing how delusional he is, Isn't this the fool who fell in love with Shae, a whore? 6 hours ago, corbon said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: That's only true if he wants to keep the Lannister privileges. He can always run away. True. What would happen if he did that? Sansa would still suffer a forced marriage to a different Lannister. I doubt any other Lannister would have held off consummating the marriage the way he did, and kept to that under pressure, the way he did. So she'd be even worse off. And he'd be far worse off in every way. Great choice there. Quote He can even choose to abandon his wife if he wanted - after all, that's what he did to Tysha. Wow. 2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Viable alternative... Podrick? He’s an appropriate age for Sansa and his family’s sworn to the Westerlands and by extension the Lannisters, meaning that the North would still be under their control. I don't think that is anywhere near enough control for Tywin. Nor is Podrick a man who could win the North over, for all his treatment in the show made us all love him. Nor is it anything but an absolute insult to the North, through any lens at all. Podrick is a junior member of a minor House. No way he's a suitable match for a Stark heiress. Anything less than a Lannister family member or Lord/Heir of a highly ranked House is a calculated insult regardless of the current political situation. And the whole point is to try and win the north back, not push it further away. I think Ser Daven (I think this is before he is maybe betrothed to a Frey girl) or Lucien are the best alternative candidates from what little we know. Tywin might have accepted them, especially Ser Daven. I'm not sure what non-Lannister candidates might work for him. It seems after the Tarbecks and Reynes, none of the other Westerlands Houses 'stand out' the way, say, the Estermonts, Florents, Hightowers and Redwyne's do in the Reach, or Manderlys, Umbars and Karstarks do in the North. I don't see Tywin allowing that much power to a potential rival Westerlands House either, even if he could find one with enough 'status' to not be an insult to the whole North. I think people (us readers) need to be aware of the difference between 'current' political tensions, that most of us agree make things nearly impossible for any Lannister to be accepted in the North for now, and social acceptability that is longer-term and in some ways deeper. Tywin (and Tyrion) would count on power, force, pragmatism and self interest to alleviate some of the first over time. Not much will alleviate the second though. BTW: "appropriate age"? Thats not thinking like a westerosi Noble. Appropriate age is old enough to consummate, vital enough to get Lannister-Stark heirs on her (thats the long term plan), and strong enough to hold the plan together against active or passive resistance from the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Viable alternative... Podrick? He’s an appropriate age for Sansa and his family’s sworn to the Westerlands and by extension the Lannisters, meaning that the North would still be under their control. Podrick??? You cannot be serious! For one thing, he is minor nobility, barely above a landed knight, if that. As Corbon pointed out, that is a serious insult to the North. For another, he is only 12 years old - and an underdeveloped 12 at that (Brienne thinks he looks to be 10), which would make consummation an issue. Podrick is clearly loyal to Tyrion. But we have no indication that he is loyal to House Lannister in general, much less Tywin or even the Westlands. And if he were to, say, decamp to Riverrun with Sansa in tow (or vice versa), there would be little Tywin could do about it. Podrick would be more likely to become Sansa's puppet than anything else, assuming the marriage wasn't undone due to non-consummation (any such claim would likely be accepted due to the parties age, absent something like a pregnancy). If Tyrion and Lancel aren't options, Tywin would likely delve into the Lannister family tree. It is certainly large enough. I'm quite sure he could find somebody to take on the job of marrying Sansa, Daven and Lucien being the most obvious candidates, if only because they are actually listed in the Appendix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, corbon said: Sansa would still suffer a forced marriage to a different Lannister. I doubt any other Lannister would have held off consummating the marriage the way he did, and kept to that under pressure, the way he did. So she'd be even worse off. And he'd be far worse off in every way. Great choice there. Tyrion agreed to marry Sansa before he considered any of this. You make it sound like he did it all out of kindness, as if it was a sacrifice for the Imp. 1 hour ago, corbon said: Wow The poster isn't wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 15 hours ago, corbon said: And is that an option available to her? No, It isn't. It was an option available to her before the Lannisters took it away. So yes Sansa had a better option but Tyrion's family denied it to her. Case closed. 15 hours ago, corbon said: It was a good option for House Lannister - who had control of the options. Not for Tyrion personally, who explicitly didn't want it, understood the flaws in the plan, and was willing to go against his family if she chose the available alternatives. Explicitly didn't want it? I thought we were discussing actual book canon here, not some fanfic or fanon? And it's arguable if he was going against his family when he offered Lancel as an alternative. Equally valuable interpretation would be that he was making himself out to be as much a victim of this to Sansa as she was. Which we all know is BS (and so is his offer) because we know from HIM that he wanted her and her estates. Come to think of it, since you insist there was no better option than Tyrion. Lancel was a hundred times better an option. Not only would it have been guaranteed there wouldn't be any sort of bedding at that time which would have spared Sansa the sexual violations done to her during her time with Tyrion. But Lancel actually set his own war bride free later on. If that had been Sansa, she would have been free and clear of the Lannisters. I would take Lancel for Sansa over Tyrion any day. So funnily enough, Lancel would have been the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltedmalted Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, Mystical said: If that had been Sansa, she would have been free and clear of the Lannisters. Lancel would have let her go but his family would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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