Comeuppance for Jaime and Cersei

[Moiraine Sedai]

The 5 Kings are the ones primarily guilty for the war of the five kings. But Jaime, Catelyn, Tywin, and Cersei are partially to blame.  Tywin, Catelyn, Robb, Balon, Renly, and Joffrey have all been punished. In Cat's case, worse than death.  What will happen to the Lannister twins, in your humble opinion?

[Angel Eyes]

Two words: brick drop. Could apply to either one.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Jaime is on a clear redemption path, so I think he will make it out. Actually of all the above mentioned, and all the people responsible for the Wot5K, him and Stannis are the only ones with regrets for the war, so it should be no surprise they're the only ones who have a chance to live.

As for Cersei, I don't know what's gonna happen in KL in early TWOW before Aegon take over, but I do know it's gonna be bad. My guess is it has something to do with wildfire.

[Willam Stark]

Cersei will have the horrible death she deserves for all the crap she has done, I don't who will put her out of her misery but I'm looking very forward to see her last moments. Jaime will die as a hero I guess, to repent of his sins.

[Jay21]

I don't know where the Lannister rift goes from here, but Cersei and Jamie seem to be on divergent paths. How exactly did Jamie contribute to the war of the 5 kings? Bran toss... not really. Attacking Ned in KL... that's the reason it's Beric in the Riverlands instead of Ned ( I never thought of that before but when Beric gives Cat the kiss of unlife he's kind of standing in for her husband already... other topic). Jamie let his sister kill his king and that void led to the war... that's a failure for a kingsguard but the war could have been averted still. I must be forgetting something else.

Has he paid enough? He lost his hand and with it the skills which set him apart, he lost the love of his life - or at least has seen her in a very different light, his father killed, his brother estranged (and he doesn't even know that Ben Plumm figures himself to be the lord of casterley rock - irrelevant to Jamie because the only thing he still has is his white cloak). He was humiliated at the Whispering Woods. I don't know, on the bench I think I could sentence Jamie to time served at this point - but he faces a harsher judge in LSH.

I hate to make predictions but Cersei's future looks pretty plain. She's going to be exposed and her children are going to be exposed and she's going to see each of them die and she's going to know that she's ultimately responsible for their deaths (speculation, I don't know if she has the capacity to blame herself for anything). The humiliation of her walk of shame will be a happy memory. When death come for her it will be a mercy (it will be Mercy?) because she's going to lose everything else first. 

Littlefinger isn't on your list, neither is Varys. How much blame do you put on these two for the war?

 

[Ephraim'sFruit]

Lord Jaimie Lannister & Lady Brienne of Casterly Rock is my fantasy ending for Jaime. I cant not love him, i just cant.

I agree with Jay21 about Cersei. I think she is gonna get a brutal taste of GRRM wrath.

[Sir Tumbleweed]

For Cersei to not have any source of power or control is probably worse than death. She's already weakened her house to spite Kevan, alienated Jaime, and got herself imprisoned. Her saving grace could have been Tommen, but she's been abusing him through the use of a whipping boy and driving him closer to Margaery. She'll probably survive her trial somehow and be left to wallow in mediocrity.

[Kierria]

The three Lannister lion cubs will die.  Isn't that punishment enough.  

[Sir Tumbleweed]

The Lannister cubs deaths being on their conscience is definitely not enough. Their incest tore apart the whole kingdom as soon as two or three people figured it out.

[Mad King Bolton]

I'd love for Jaime to make it out, but I do feel his chapter looking at and filling in the white book was a sign that his page will be filled by another of his heroic deeds after he dies.  My hope is that he becomes the 1000th lord commander of the night's watch if it still exists. You don't have 997 lord commanders if you're not going to hit cool milestone number 1000.  Anyway, that's how I could see things unfolding eventually.  For Cersei she has to face a young queen to take everything away (roughly speaking), and then hopefully something fittingly brutal. I'm okay with that being at Jaime's hands, but for his sake I hope not.

[Springwatch]

They can die together, as Cersei predicted. If Jaime had a fully functional conscience, he'd know that turning to a nice clean new page in his life is not enough. He doesn't repent of the devastation he's caused - in fact he's continuing Cersei's work of putting Lannisters in absolute power. Just with his head full of pretty thoughts.

[Angel Eyes]

Jaime: A short drop and a sudden stop. He's not getting out of his appointment with Lady Stoneheart.

[Wall Flower]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:56 AM, Jay21 said:

I don't know where the Lannister rift goes from here, but Cersei and Jamie seem to be on divergent paths. How exactly did Jamie contribute to the war of the 5 kings? Bran toss... not really. Attacking Ned in KL... that's the reason it's Beric in the Riverlands instead of Ned ( I never thought of that before but when Beric gives Cat the kiss of unlife he's kind of standing in for her husband already... other topic). Jamie let his sister kill his king and that void led to the war... that's a failure for a kingsguard but the war could have been averted still. I must be forgetting something else.

Has he paid enough? He lost his hand and with it the skills which set him apart, he lost the love of his life - or at least has seen her in a very different light, his father killed, his brother estranged (and he doesn't even know that Ben Plumm figures himself to be the lord of casterley rock - irrelevant to Jamie because the only thing he still has is his white cloak). He was humiliated at the Whispering Woods. I don't know, on the bench I think I could sentence Jamie to time served at this point - but he faces a harsher judge in LSH.

I hate to make predictions but Cersei's future looks pretty plain. She's going to be exposed and her children are going to be exposed and she's going to see each of them die and she's going to know that she's ultimately responsible for their deaths (speculation, I don't know if she has the capacity to blame herself for anything). The humiliation of her walk of shame will be a happy memory. When death come for her it will be a mercy (it will be Mercy?) because she's going to lose everything else first. 

Littlefinger isn't on your list, neither is Varys. How much blame do you put on these two for the war?

 

I enjoy Jaime as a character but you seem to be forgetting the treasonous incestuous sex with his sister the queen and the passing off of the resulting children as true born heirs of the king. That's one of the major underlying causes of the War of the Five Kings. Not to mention that throwing Bran out that window was one of the reasons for Catelyn's arrest of Tyrion and the start of hostilities in the Riverlands. 

[Shi Qiang]

I can forgive Cersei but not Jaime.  The death of her own children is ample punishment, in my opinion.  It pays for her sins.  I never held their sexual affairs against them.  That is, as I say, their own affair.  However, it became a problem after Bran witnessed them having at it.  The sexual affair itself was not the problem.  It's the cover up that caused much of the problem.  

Cersei, Jaime, and Robert are all terrible people.  Robert was unfaithful and there is no moral obligation on Cersei's part to be faithful to him.  She can rebel against the double standard in secret and that is not wrong.  Robert was willing to murder an innocent girl who was pregnant when he began to perceive her as a threat.  He let the murder of two children go unpunished because it served his interest.  If the Targ-haters won't hold that against him, they should not hold it against Cersei even if she had Robert's bastards murdered.  They were an affront and a threat to her own children.  She could murder all of his bastards and that won't come to the number of children who died in Robert's own rebellion.  Cersei and the Lannisters took the throne from the Baratheons.  I don't hold that against her.  Robert took the throne from Aerys and his heirs.  Rules and traditions were broken.  The Lannisters could do the same to the Baratheons and it would not be immoral.  The Baratheons were arguably more harmful to the kingdom compared to King Aerys II.

[Jay21]

13 hours ago, Wall Flower said:

I enjoy Jaime as a character but you seem to be forgetting the treasonous incestuous sex with his sister the queen and the passing off of the resulting children as true born heirs of the king. That's one of the major underlying causes of the War of the Five Kings. Not to mention that throwing Bran out that window was one of the reasons for Catelyn's arrest of Tyrion and the start of hostilities in the Riverlands. 

not forgetting it, don't think it's a reason for the war, more of a reason  for a reason  for a reason... sure it's in there somewhere, but the course to war wasn't locked in with with Joffrey's birth.

Catlyn's responsible for her own actions and misconceptions. Jamie had nothing to do with Tyrion's arrest. Even if you do put that on him hostilities in the Riverland would have amounted to nothing if Robert hadn't died hunting.

[Arthur Peres]

On 3/4/2021 at 2:51 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The 5 Kings are the ones primarily guilty for the war of the five kings. But Jaime, Catelyn, Tywin, and Cersei are partially to blame.  Tywin, Catelyn, Robb, Balon, Renly, and Joffrey have all been punished. In Cat's case, worse than death.  What will happen to the Lannister twins, in your humble opinion?

Disagree right from the start. With the exeption of Stannis and Balon, neither of the kings choose the war but were pushed into it.

Renly went into war for his own survival.

Robb went to war after having his family being arrested, executed, and being summoned to become a prisoner himself.

Joffrey was just reacting to the chaos around him, and was a minor, his grandfather started it all and tossed him into the mess.

Cersei and Jaime are the biggest responsables for the war, then  comes and Stannis, Littlefinger  and Lysa, the ones that were capable to stop it but let it go for their own agenda, and last  Ned, Tywin and Catelyn.

About their punishment... the twins can have the Theon treatment that Ramsey was giving, they deserve it far more than him.

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Disagree right from the start. With the exeption of Stannis and Balon, neither of the kings choose the war but were pushed into it.

Renly went into war for his own survival.

Robb went to war after having his family being arrested, executed, and being summoned to become a prisoner himself.

Joffrey was just reacting to the chaos around him, and was a minor, his grandfather started it all and tossed him into the mess.

Cersei and Jaime are the biggest responsables for the war, then  comes and Stannis, Littlefinger  and Lysa, the ones that were capable to stop it but let it go for their own agenda, and last  Ned, Tywin and Catelyn.

About their punishment... the twins can have the Theon treatment that Ramsey was giving, they deserve it far more than him.

Renly made a bad situation worse by declaring himself King and would have set a bad precedent if he won. Heck, he didn’t even need to declare himself King since Shireen is out of the running.

[ATaleofSalt&Onions]

11 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Robert was unfaithful and there is no moral obligation on Cersei's part to be faithful to him. 

When cuckolding him risks causing a succession crisis that leads to civil war resulting in countless thousands dying and suffering, as it actually happened, I would argue that she does in fact have a moral obligation to not cuckold him at the very least, regardless of how bad Robert was.

11 hours ago, Allardyce said:

If the Targ-haters won't hold that against him, they should not hold it against Cersei even if she had Robert's bastards murdered.  They were an affront and a threat to her own children. 

I’m not a Targ-hater, but this is a pretty bad false equivalence. Robert didn’t actually kill Rhaegar’s kids, and his bastards were nowhere near as much of a threat as them, let alone Daenerys, who was part of a marriage alliance meant to invade Westeros. Killing the bastards was just Cersei being petty and cruel. So was Robert’s reaction, but that doesn’t make it as bad as actually murdering children yourself or make it ok somehow.

11 hours ago, Allardyce said:

She could murder all of his bastards and that won't come to the number of children who died in Robert's own rebellion. 

Robert rebelled because Aerys murdered Ned’s father and brother and then demanded that Ned and Robert be executed as well. How is that Robert’s fault? Was he supposed to just resign himself to being executed for no reason? And even then Jon Arryn is the one that actually the one who started the rebellion when he called his banners.

I’m not saying Robert is a great person by any means, but this is all just false equivalencies and nonsensical justifications for Cersei’s actions.

[saltedmalted]

15 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Robert was unfaithful and there is no moral obligation on Cersei's part to be faithful to him. 

Why doesn't Cersei ask Robert to put her aside? 

 

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Why doesn't Cersei ask Robert to put her aside? 

 

That typically doesn’t happen in Westeros unless you have a fanatic like Baelor. Not even King Aerys I, who is practically cargo-shipped with books, never set aside his wife.