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Canon Claude

Why did Tywin have to sack King’s Landing?

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I've wondered about this too.  There are two explanations I can think of.  Firstly, the the smallfolk soldiers came all the way from the Westerlands and wanted a piece of the action, which wasn't under Tywin's control.  Remember, common men don't see real gains in war, only the highborn do, so taking what they can get and raping women that would never otherwise consent, with impunity, is really all they have in war.  Tywin knew this so he didn't even try to stop them as it would be like herding cats.

The other option is that the Mountain and his men needed time to get to the Red Keep, find Rhaegar's children and kill them.  I still don't believe Tywin ordered Elia raped or killed, but I am 100% positive that he ordered Rhaenys and Aegon killed and wrapped in Lannister cloaks to present to Robert.   This was done to prevent Jon Arryn and Ned Stark from being able to convince Robert to show mercy to them.  If they were allowed to live, then Cersei and Robert's future kids would never be secure on the Iron Throne, so Tywin didn't want to give Robert the option of letting them live.   To that end, he chose not to stop his men from sacking and raping, even though he could have stopped it.  This is not to say he ordered it, only that he knew it would happen and made no effort to prevent it or end it once it had begun, at least until he knew that Rhaegar's kids were dead.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, aeverett said:

If they were allowed to live, then Cersei and Robert's future kids would never be secure on the Iron Throne, so Tywin didn't want to give Robert the option of letting them live

Once he has murdered the Targaryens Tywin Lannister cannot go elsewhere. What if Robert chose not  to marry Cersei?

Edited by saltedmalted

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On 3/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, saltedmalted said:

Once he has murdered the Targaryens Tywin Lannister cannot go elsewhere. What if Robert chose not  to marry Cersei?

I'm sure Tywin had a plan.  After all, he'd not loose Casterly Rock after he hand delivered Kings Landing to Robert.  If worse came to worst, Tywin could marry Cersei to Stannis, or to another house.  Remember, Cersei was very beautiful and nobody knew she was batshit crazy outside of family members.  Finding her a husband useful to Tywin wouldn't have been difficult.   

However, Robert really was fish in a barrel.  Tywin of all people knew the crown's finances even before the rebellion.  House Lannister, particularly with Tywin at its head, was not a house that could be left twisting in the wind.  Robert needed to bring them into the fold, and while Robert wouldn't care, Jon Arryn was wise enough to get it.   The terms were the only thing open to debate.  With all of the other daughters of high lords already married, Cersei was Robert's best option for legitimization of his rule and paying off debt the Targaryens incurred.   Had Cersei given Robert trueborn children, even if they were just the same as the ones she had with Jaime, only with black hair, Tywin had a decent shot at that dynasty that would last a thousand years.

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11 hours ago, aeverett said:

Tywin of all people knew the crown's finances even before the rebellion. 

The crown was in a good situation before the Rebellion.

11 hours ago, aeverett said:

House Lannister, particularly with Tywin at its head, was not a house that could be left twisting in the wind.

Refusing to marry his daughter or taking his money does not count as "twisting in the wind".

11 hours ago, aeverett said:

Robert needed to bring them into the fold, and while Robert wouldn't care, Jon Arryn was wise enough to get it. 

They are already in the fold. If Tywin Lannister wanted leverage then he shouldn't have gone ahead and sacked KL or stayed at his home through modt of the rebellion.

11 hours ago, aeverett said:

With all of the other daughters of high lords already married

Why should Robert only marry a daughter belonging to a great house?

11 hours ago, aeverett said:

Tywin had a decent shot at that dynasty that would last a thousand years.

IT without dragons is unstable.  

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It's the way of war.  The Westermen get their bonus and take it back home.  Tywin earns the loyalty of the men and the stolen goods make their way back to the Lannister villages. 

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16 hours ago, aeverett said:

However, Robert really was fish in a barrel.

No, he wasn´t. He was engaged to Lyanna and waging war to rescue her. As far as Tywin or anyone knew, Robert was going to recover Lyanna alive and make her his Queen. Tywin did not at that point know Lyanna would die.

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On 3/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, saltedmalted said:

Once he has murdered the Targaryens Tywin Lannister cannot go elsewhere. What if Robert chose not  to marry Cersei?

Then he's a valued loyalist and still LP of the richest region of Westeros....

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12 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Then he's a valued loyalist and still LP of the richest region of Westeros....

He doesn't have leverage over Robert, as some in this thread believe.

Robert should have given him his son back and nothing more.

A treacherous character like Tywin Lannister shouldn't be allowed to get too close.

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On 3/20/2021 at 11:53 PM, saltedmalted said:

He doesn't have leverage over Robert, as some in this thread believe.

Robert should have given him his son back and nothing more.

A treacherous character like Tywin Lannister shouldn't be allowed to get too close.

No debate there. Just saying he’s no worse off than he was before. He has to bend the knee to ensure Jaimes safety. 
 

and Robert isn’t a fan but he needs money and a wife. Cersei is really only the practical option and Tywin has the gold

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2 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

and Robert isn’t a fan but he needs money and a wife. Cersei is really only the practical option and Tywin has the gold

Cersei is not practical option tho, a marriage with a Hightower gave him the same thing and I'm pretty sure there are more candidates that we simply are not told about. Not Tywin has been giving him money for free anyway, he's in good debt with him, he can do that just as well without marrying to his blood. It's not like Aerys was particularly rich so it's not like Robert was in need of money.

 

The only reason he married Cersei was because Jon Arryn convinced him to do so, yet  i don't really think his reasoning was all that good anyway.

On 3/19/2021 at 4:59 PM, aeverett said:

However, Robert really was fish in a barrel.  Tywin of all people knew the crown's finances even before the rebellion.

Aerys left the treasury overflowing with gold.

 

 

On 3/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, aeverett said:

If they were allowed to live, then Cersei and Robert's future kids would never be secure on the Iron Throne,

Robert's and Lyanna's children you mean??

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7 minutes ago, frenin said:

Cersei is not practical option tho, a marriage with a Hightower gave him the same thing and I'm pretty sure there are more candidates that we simply are not told about. Not Tywin has been giving him money for free anyway, he's in good debt with him, he can do that just as well without marrying to his blood. It's not like Aerys was particularly rich so it's not like Robert was in need of money.

Which Tyrell was available? The options I’ve seen described pretty much Leave only Cersei left after the TOJ. Robert didn’t need the money at the time but having another link to the undisputed lineage couldn’t hurt 

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6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Which Tyrell was available? The options I’ve seen described pretty much Leave only Cersei left after the TOJ. Robert didn’t need the money at the time but having another link to the undisputed lineage couldn’t hurt 

Hightower had at least one daughter available and the only reason Cersei seemed the only option is because we are told she is.

Tywin never gave the impression that he was to give money away and Robert doesn't need to marry his daughter so Tywin can be his banker.

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Because Aerys had dissed Tywin by marrying Rhaegar to Elia instead of Cersei all those years ago, and stealing Jaime via The Kingsguard.  Such things cannot stand.  So when Tywin finally got his free shot, he took it.

Sacking King's Landing may have been business for The Late Lord Tywin, trying extra hard to make his bones to compensate for waiting until the rebels were sure to win before joining them...

...But sending his pet terrorist Ser Gregor The Mountain to rape and murder Elia Martel after making sure she saw him murder her royal children in front of her? That was absolutely petty and personal, and just as much so as anything Walder Frey did to Talisa Maegar (show-side) or wanted to do to Jeyne Westerling (book-side).

The only real difference between Tywin Lannister and Walder Frey is their operating budget. It amazes me that Storm Of Swords has been out for 20 years, the TV show's come and gone, and yet so many people still don't get this.

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