Will Doran get his whole family killed?

[SeanF]

19 hours ago, Allardyce said:

Prince Doran thinks he's keeping the sand snakes and his daughter under control.  He is wrong about that.  His daughter will drag the family into a war which they can't win.  They won't die out but they will be taken down.  George Martin won't kill all of the sand snakes.  At least one or two will survive.  

I think they'll win - at least for a time.  I expect Arianne to ally with fAegon and take Kings Landing with him.  But, I think that Jon Connington and the Sand Snakes will then exact terrible revenge on anyone associated with the Tyrells/Lannisters/Baratheons.

[Groo]

9 hours ago, Castellan said:

The best example is Joffrey cutting up Tyrion's gift The Lives of Four Kings I think it is called pretty suitable for someone refusing to learn, he is assassinated very soon after.

When Sansa sees that he has received a book:

A book. Sansa wondered if Joffrey moved those fat wormy lips of his when he read.

I think its interesting that when Jon sets out to Wall and Dany sets out with the  Dothraki, they both are accompanied by strangers who are carrying books and offering them guidance (Tyrion & Jorah).

That's an excellent an example. Better than the ones I was thinking about.

[Anck Su Namun]

His nieces are the ones looking for war.  Doran is the only one holding them back.  War will follow his death and his House too will die. 

[Groo]

On 3/8/2021 at 9:22 AM, Anck Su Namun said:

His nieces are the ones looking for war.  Doran is the only one holding them back.  War will follow his death and his House too will die. 

But is Doran holding them back because he doesn't want war? He does want "fire and blood" after all. He's trying to make sure he has a winning hand before he plays but he definitely wants to play. I think the downfall will come because he thinks he's just setting up his hand and can still back out but the truth is he's already entered the game.

[Rose of Red Lake]

 

On 3/9/2021 at 9:16 AM, Groo said:

But is Doran holding them back because he doesn't want war? He does want "fire and blood" after all. He's trying to make sure he has a winning hand before he plays but he definitely wants to play. I think the downfall will come because he thinks he's just setting up his hand and can still back out but the truth is he's already entered the game.

Yeah, he knows that dragons are good at winning wars but he should read that GRRM interview where he talks about how that form of power can't reform, improve, or build things.

[Jay21]

On 3/5/2021 at 4:12 PM, Angel Eyes said:

More variety in Quentyn’s companions; all of them only had ties to House Yronwood, and so showed that only House Yronwood was backing the scheme. Contrast with Oberyn’s entourage in King’s Landing that had representatives of Dorne’s best and brightest.

I read a theory somewhere (wish I could cite it) which suggested that the whole Quentyn suicide mission was about manipulating the Yronwoods and was never supposed to succeed. I beleive that this was part and parcel with the idea that Quentyn was an imposter and Doran's real son was in Norvos with his mother. 

Seems pretty far fetched to me, but it's hard to square Qentyn's mission what we're told of Doran. He wanted dragons but ended up with sellswords, a dead heir and war with Pentos(!?!) It's hard to imagine a more complete failure.

[Groo]

17 minutes ago, Jay21 said:

I read a theory somewhere (wish I could cite it) which suggested that the whole Quentyn suicide mission was about manipulating the Yronwoods and was never supposed to succeed. I beleive that this was part and parcel with the idea that Quentyn was an imposter and Doran's real son was in Norvos with his mother. 

Seems pretty far fetched to me, but it's hard to square Qentyn's mission what we're told of Doran. He wanted dragons but ended up with sellswords, a dead heir and war with Pentos(!?!) It's hard to imagine a more complete failure.

Wait. There's a theory that the Quentyn who went to Danny was an imposter? Um, what if this Quentyn had succeeded? What kind of manipulation of the Yronwoods would be worth that risk? And what is gained with the suicide mission? Is Doran eventually going to produce the real Quentyn and tell the Yronwoods they've been lied to for over a decade? I'll stop now. The questions are endless.

[Jay21]

7 minutes ago, Groo said:

Wait. There's a theory that the Quentyn who went to Danny was an imposter? Um, what if this Quentyn had succeeded? What kind of manipulation of the Yronwoods would be worth that risk? And what is gained with the suicide mission? Is Doran eventually going to produce the real Quentyn and tell the Yronwoods they've been lied to for over a decade? I'll stop now. The questions are endless.

Yeah. I agree it's pretty far fetched. George had a quote about Fire and Blood where he described the style as 'telling, not showing, whereas his usual style is to show not tell. His characters have told us that Doran is brilliant but he hasn't shown us that yet. At some point I'm going to have to trust my eyes.  

[Shi Qiang]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:09 AM, SeanF said:

I think they'll win - at least for a time.  I expect Arianne to ally with fAegon and take Kings Landing with him.  But, I think that Jon Connington and the Sand Snakes will then exact terrible revenge on anyone associated with the Tyrells/Lannisters/Baratheons.

I don't see how they can win.  The Lannister mines haven't given out and they still have a large army.  

[frenin]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:16 PM, Groo said:

I think the downfall will come because he thinks he's just setting up his hand and can still back out but the truth is he's already entered the game

That he will get his whole family, or at least a good amount if it, is written in stone the moment Ellaria remarks that the Martells have no longer enemies to fight only ghosts and children and that keeping the "fight" will only bring more dead to them. All those who wronged them are dead and still neither the snakes nor Doran can't go back, it's too litlle to late.

The Lannisters are far from spent and Dany is coming and with her yet another Martell ghost to avenge. It does not look bright for them.

[Castellan]

By the way, I just noticed this little thought of Quentyn's that sums up his experiences on his mission to Dany.

Adventure stank.

It begins a chapter, he is describing a possible ship for hire that has been used as a slaver. Initially he thinks it must have transported pigs, then he realises...

This stink was piss and rotting meat and nightsoil, this was the reek of corpse flesh and weeping sores and wounds gone bad, so strong that it overwhelmed the salt air and fish smell of the harbor.

Well a bit different from burned flesh, but nevertheless, sort of foreshadowing his fate.

[Anck Su Namun]

On 3/9/2021 at 12:16 PM, Groo said:

But is Doran holding them back because he doesn't want war? He does want "fire and blood" after all. He's trying to make sure he has a winning hand before he plays but he definitely wants to play. I think the downfall will come because he thinks he's just setting up his hand and can still back out but the truth is he's already entered the game.

Quentyn's trip and death can be kept secret.  He can still back out.  But that option will be gone if Arianne commits the family to Aegon.