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Mrstrategy

WW1 military leaders vs best westeros military leaders

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21 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Can you send me a quote? IIRC Wallenstein's soldiers lived off the land too. Moving things like shot and powder is a different matter.

I'm getting most of this from a book (see below). Wallenstein's men did forage but the entire modus operandi for him was to make sure his men could operate in the areas of Germany that had already been completely razed or burnt out. That was one of the primary challenges during the 30 years war.

"Early in the War, Wallenstein ... saw the baneful logistical and tactical effects of the existing ways and introduced ,pre systematic and better managed logistics. [...] Wallenstein helped to lead the way back to public enterprise and government ownership of armies...."

[...]

"As much as businessman as a soldier, he stressed that his soldiers do not disturb civilians but took care that they protected the villages and their inhabitants so thatp lanting and harvesting could go on. He also provided for his armies by buying and shipping in food. Much of the business he did with himself..."

Short story, he married a rich widow who died. He used her lands to finance the pay for his army as well as buy / create food for it. Then with the money he earned from running the emperor's army he bought land seized from nobles and doubled down on that effort. He's basically LF if LF were also a badass soldier.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Art_of_War_in_the_Western_World/z2FRzcz2W0oC?hl=en

21 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

Are we really coparing KL's walls to Riverrun and Storm's End? 

KL is a well fortified city, so yes I am. However castles in general, let alone RR or SE, are much harder to take by force. The topic was seeing walls stormed, not castle walls being stormed.

21 hours ago, saltedmalted said:
Storming a small, poorly defende holdfast is a completely different matter. WW1 soldiers knew all of this.

WW1 men know all of this. They would drastically improve strategy which is what really matters.

You'll get no disagreement from me there but it was indeed a siege where a parley was made, no progress made, and an assault committed. I just don't think a WW1 general is going to have an easy go. Having historical and theoretical knowledge of how to arrange an army and feed / move it is one thing. Being able to practically achieve it in real world scenarios is something else.

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11 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Being able to practically achieve it in real world scenarios is something else.

They had theoretical knowledge and they managed to do it in reality (colonial wars, WW1). I think you are drastically overestimating the competence of soldiers in ASoIaF.

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On 3/11/2021 at 11:53 PM, saltedmalted said:

They had theoretical knowledge and they managed to do it in reality (colonial wars, WW1). I think you are drastically overestimating the competence of soldiers in ASoIaF.

And again, railroads did most of the heavy lifting in both WW1 and the colonial wars the generals would have fought in as far as logistics were concerned. The generals had to worry about marching and foraging to a certain extent but the "last mile" is more of what they dealt with than, say, Robb who had to march his men 1000 miles just to cross into a hostile area.

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1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

railroads did most of the heavy lifting in both WW1 and the colonial wars the generals would have fought in as far as logistics were concerned.

Railroads are needed for modern warfare. ASoIaF doesn't have guns.

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The generals had to worry about marching and foraging to a certain extent but the "last mile" is more of what they dealt with than, say, Robb who had to march his men 1000 miles just to cross into a hostile area.

Robb didn't have to plan way ahead. As long as the land ahead is untouched it will feed the troops.

Management of foraging is basic staff work. 

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3 minutes ago, saltedmalted said:

Railroads are needed for modern warfare. ASoIaF doesn't have guns.

Robb didn't have to plan way ahead. As long as the land ahead is untouched it will feed the troops.

Management of foraging is basic staff work. 

No but ASOIAF does have arrows and large armies. Henry V had his sheriffs collect over a million feathers for a year before he led one of his campaigns in France. Richard I bought and stored food and supplies on Cyprus or Rhodes for months before he left France. Just take a look at Henry V's preparations for Agincourt:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03044181.2016.1236503

It might feed the troops but Robb was also marching to save his grandfather and uncle. Destroying their lands to do so isn't going to be well received by the RL nobles. And again marching 1000 miles to hope that the land can sustain your army would be court martial worthy by WW1.

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1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

No but ASOIAF does have arrows and large armies. Henry V had his sheriffs collect over a million feathers for a year before he led one of his campaigns in France. Richard I bought and stored food and supplies on Cyprus or Rhodes for months before he left France.

These are tiny issues to worry about. WW1 era generals' ancestors from Napoleonic times handled bigger objectives than medieval ones. Robb, a 16 year old, could handle it. Trained men will do far better.

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Destroying their lands to do so isn't going to be well received by the RL nobles.

Medieval armies did not drag around their food supplies. Most likely Robb gets supplied by the local lord for a short duration of time, or troops have to take their food from their surrounding.

3 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

And again marching 1000 miles to hope that the land can sustain your army would be court martial worthy by WW1.

WW1 is nothing like pseudo-medieval warfare. 

 

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