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House Selmy

If Bran is destined to rule, then he will be another Agon the 3rd.

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While we wait for WoW and wait even longer for a Dream of Spring there is alot we can take away from Targaryen history to help us make sense of the ending previewed by GOT season 8. Of course George will make more sense of how Bran will become king in the end, in the mean time I want to use Targaryen history and some of the show to make sense of how Bran will rule. 

First the current time period in Westeros outside of the white walker threat mirrors the post dance of the dragons period. AS many of you know this was the bloody Targaryen civil war between Renera Targaryen and her half brother Agon the 2nd for the iron throne that left both Calment's and most of dragons dead, even worse it left Westeros in in bloody disarray. Out of this came Agon the third, the first of two sons of Renera by her Husband and consort Prince Daemon. This poor boy watched his mother feed to a dragon and most of his brothers died during the war. He was crowned at 12 and was expected to rule a fractured bloody kingdom divided after a terrible war. Sadly everything he saw in his childhood from his mothers death, to all the other killings poisoned his rain, he was a good person but his depression made him cold towards everyone but his brother and this led to what most masters called a broken reign. Most notable, history remember him for the most part as Agon the Dragon bane, because the last of the dragons died under his rule and even though he hated them, even he understood how much this hurt house Targaryen. 

Close to 150 years later, bran will take up a throne is a circumstance that closely follows this. The war of the five kings has left Westeros in similar disarray, the river land and the north will starve, Highgarden and Castrly rock will squabble while more claimants (Stannis, Vagon, Denarius) further play the game of thrones and iron men will continue to take advantage of the chaos. Let assume that by the end of Dreams of spring most of these issues are resolved, the white walkers, the game of thrones, the iron born etc. Bran is carried up those long steps to the throne by Hodor to site among those barbs of blades to rule a kingdom that doesn't include the north. I think he will rule as Agon the broken because he will have gone through almost as much trauma as that ruler did. By this point Bran has had his father, mother and oldest brother murdered. His family is scattered and everyone whos supported them killed in a number of wars. At almost the same age as Agon, Bran lost his legs to a grewsome injury and is expected to go through a number of challenges to be the next 3 eyed raven. Of course all this will make him wise, but he will most likly be a very sad and serious young man unable to have joy in life. If brans actor in GOT is any indicator, he will probably be as close to a robot with little emotions and opportunity for joy in life. He will rule, but he wont like it, he will leave the details to his council and spend days by himself searching the past or thinking of what could have been. There will be no tourneys in his rain, no masked balls no glory for knights in wars of conquest, just a kingdom recovering from a couple of bloody wars a loooong winter following a ten year summer. The small folk wont know there king or look up to him as he will be a cripple which the ignorant will dispis him while they starve from the lack of food. 

Anther aspect similar to Agon will be a crisis of regents or over reaching lords who will want power and royal favor. If the North will indeed be its own kingdom like the show, Im sure Bran will have a hard time appeasing the more powerful lord of the realm to stay loyal to the crown forcing the iron throne to give favors and honors to one after the other. In Agon's day this was a problem with his regency and the divided rule among a counsel of his regents. In brans day I think little finger will play a big part, if he is not dead by the end of WoW. 

What do yall think? I base most of my comparison on what we known from the end of Fire and blood and the small chapter we get in World of Ice and Fire. Im sure we will have a much better picture when the second Fire and Blood book comes out( Probably way after ASOIAF if finished).

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The Frog will become a Prince.  The boy now known as Quentyn "Frog" Martell will become Prince that Was Promised, Rightful King, and will be crowned Aegon VI.   But Frog was cut from the HBO show, so they had to come up with someone else.

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5 hours ago, Hug-hammer said:

 

Bran is like the young griff, he came a little late in the game of throne. Nobody wants him as a king.

 

Just curious, do you think the same thing will happen to Dany?

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4 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

The Frog will become a Prince.  The boy now known as Quentyn "Frog" Martell will become Prince that Was Promised, Rightful King, and will be crowned Aegon VI.   But Frog was cut from the HBO show, so they had to come up with someone else.

That's gonna be kind of difficult, seeing as Quent's dead.

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6 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

That's gonna be kind of difficult, seeing as Quent's dead.

A burnt-beyond-recognition person dressed like a locust is dead.  

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7 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

A burnt-beyond-recognition person dressed like a locust is dead.  

And that person is almost certainly Quentyn. We literally see him getting incinerated in his final pov.

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10 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

And that person is almost certainly Quentyn. We literally see him getting incinerated in his final pov.

We did not see the other windblown get incinerated, but that does not mean all the windblown got away.  There were dragons running around, a suspicious gap in time we did not observe, and a pair of Dornishmen who know things they do not want to say in front of Barristan.

What happened to Frog is like what happened to Dany.  He got engulfed in a dragon's "furnace wind",   Then he "was burning".  After that, Dany left with Drogon and now is hanging with Drogon in his rocky lair.   I think the same thing happened to Frog.  He left with Viserion, and now is spending quality time with Viserion in his pyramid.

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1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said:

And that person is almost certainly Quentyn. We literally see him getting incinerated in his final pov.

I'm not on the 'Quentyn is alive camp' but it does bother me that people think it next to imposible, after all, Arya came out alive of an axe hitting her in the head...

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I dunno.  This story has to end somewhere. The story of the reign of King Bran seems to me to be beyond scope. Furthermore the idea of a Stark on the Iron Throne and then the North ceding from the 7 Kingdoms... I don't buy it myself. I personally hate that we've had the King Bran reveal and though I disagree with them I am very sympathetic to those who refuse to accept that will be the ending. Bran will be very different then, how I couldn't say, but different enough that the great lords of Westeros will essentially 'elect' him to be their king. I think this precludes a sullen, indifferent kid prone to depression.  Still this is an attempt to look 3000 odd pages ahead in the story and I just don't think we have the information today to infer that much about the reign of Brandon I.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

I'm not on the 'Quentyn is alive camp' but it does bother me that people think it next to imposible, after all, Arya came out alive of an axe hitting her in the head...

With Arya it was left open ended whether or not she was struck with the flat part of the axe. It was a relief to find out she survived, but not surprising that she wasn't killed by a non-lethal blow. Quentyn was incinerated. I think it's a pretty big difference here. All the "Quentyn is secretly alive" theories all sound needlessly complex, and what's the narrative payoff? Seems to me that Quentyn dying is more fitting because it reinforces the idea that aspiring to great acts of heroism doesn't mean you get to avoid consequences. Goerge goes for realism as much as he can, and realistically, Quentyn trying to tame dragons is not going to go well. It would be a pretty cheap reveal to find out that Quentyn survived despite showing pretty compelling evidence that he didn't.

Also, Quentyn being dead has more interesting repercussions for Dany, Arianne, Doran and fAegon going forward than him not being dead. 

Edited by Nathan Stark

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5 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

With Arya it was left open ended whether or not she was struck with the flat part of the axe. It was a relief to find out she survived, but not surprising that she wasn't killed by a non-lethal blow. Quentyn was incinerated.

I mean, you say this because you read what happened after, for sure if that was the last thing we heard from Arya in ten years most fans would be like 'Nah, she's definitely dead, she got hit in the head by an axe."

The only thing we get from Qs POV is that his arm was on fire and he screamed. That sounds a lot less definitive that being hit in the head by an axe. At least to me.

Similar thing with Bran and Rickon being skinned and burned.

 

Quote

I think it's a pretty big difference here. All the "Quentyn is secretly alive" theories all sound needlessly complex, and what's the narrative payoff? Seems to me that Quentyn dying is more fitting because it reinforces the idea that aspiring to great acts of heroism doesn't mean you get to avoid consequences. Goerge goes for realism as much as he can, and realistically, Quentyn trying to tame dragons is not going to go well. It would be a pretty cheap reveal to find out that Quentyn survived despite showing pretty compelling evidence that he didn't.

I agree.

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Bran is not leaving that cave.  His body will remain broken.  He will become a powerful greenseer.  But he won't be the ruler of Westeros.  At least not in terms of what we think of as a ruler.  He will watch Westeros from his dark cave like a voyeur Lord of the Dark.  The all-seeing eye. 

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I enjoy King Bran because 1) I love the idea of the Stark ascendency, 2) fuck every last Targaryen (yes, even Jon), 3) I love how angry people get over it :devil: I also like your analogies to Aegon Numero 3. Bran would not participate in furthering a dynasty though. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Bran is not leaving that cave.  His body will remain broken.  He will become a powerful greenseer.  But he won't be the ruler of Westeros.  At least not in terms of what we think of as a ruler.  He will watch Westeros from his dark cave like a voyeur Lord of the Dark.  The all-seeing eye. 

There's not much point to any of Bran's story in your prediction. Asking readers to get invested in Bran for the 4 books he's in, only for him to not grow or change at all as a character, or return home at all, is kind of insulting to anybody who does get invested in Bran. It's really not a move I see George making, since Bran, Arya and Sansa are all on parrallel heroes journey arks.

Edited by Nathan Stark

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On 3/26/2021 at 11:27 AM, Lady_Qohor said:

If we have to have King Bran, I'm kind of hoping what we'll really get is King Bloodraven in Brian's body

That's...

...very creepy.

2 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I enjoy King Bran because 1) I love the idea of the Stark ascendency, 2) fuck every last Targaryen (yes, even Jon), 3) I love how angry people get over it :devil: I also like your analogies to Aegon Numero 3. Bran would not participate in furthering a dynasty though. 

King Bran is a great idea.

I love the idea of Stark ascendancy too: not because I hate the Targaryens but because Stark ascendancy brings the story around full circle. The story begins with the Starks being viewed and acting as ultimate authority figures (in both the prologue and the first full chapter) and then it transitions to the Starks fighting for truth, justice and freedom.

Everyone can understand that the Stark motto of "Winter is Coming" is there for a reason but people forget that the Tully motto "Family, Duty, Honor" is also there for a reason. It matters. The Starks stand for both and it's present in all of their story arcs.

The story should end where it starts.

Bran had the first chapter and he should have the last.

I do think Bran will participate in furthering a dynasty though. Maybe not through him (just because he is paraplegic doesn't mean that his reproductive organs don't work) but through his siblings and their children.

I have heard that the Long Night is not going to have an easy open-shut ending (e.g. it won't be over and done with before the end of the book) and that epilogue of A Dream of Spring will take place in the very distant future. I don't know if the epilogue will be a POV, a pseudo-letter written from one person or if it will be a pseudo-history book written by a maester or something. But I do know that the Starks will lose power when spring comes.

In any case, it is very unlikely Bran and none of the other young characters will be alive for the epilogue. Bran might be alive but he'd be like Bloodraven: old as dirt looking like a skeleton.

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In my head canon king of Westoros should be follower of 7. So I do not think that the faith would accept tree worshipping warlock/druid as ruler and their protector. Or if Bran really wants to wear funny hat and sit on very unconfy chair he would have to publicly renounce his old faith and become "fanatical" follower of the faith.

Basically same thing as Henry IV (of France) did when he inherited the crown of France but lacked necessary support to keep it bc he was a Hugenot and so many VIPs did not support him. But he converted to Catholicism and so "fixed" that problem. So if Bran becomes a king he would have to literally sell his soul and become anti Stark. Or I do think that he would be willing to pay that price.

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