NBA 2021 - Randle Hearts

[Wilbur]

Jokic is posting Larry Bird-like team-leading numbers this season, leading the Nuggets is something like seven counting stats.

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Magic trade Vuc to the Bulls for two first round picks, Wendell Carter, and Otto Porter.  Wow, did not see that coming.  Awesome.  Any Bulls fans here?  Porter seems like a salary dump, but they'll have Carter at least another year and his numbers don't look too bad.  Plus he's only 21.  Guess I'll be rooting for the Bulls to lose the rest of the year as well - the 2021 pick is reportedly only top 4 protected.

Alrighty then.  Let's see what they can get for Gordon/Fournier and then it's full tank mode.  Orlando hasn't really tanked in earnest since I was a freshman in college, pretty excited.

Looks like they traded both.  Gordon to Denver for Gary Harris, RJ Hampton and a 1st and Fournier to Boston for two 2nd rounders.  Honestly, I'm a little surprised they couldn't get more for either Gordon or Vuc, although maybe I'm selling Carter and Harris short (don't know much about either one). 

So, there's no question Orlando is committing to the rebuild.  You're welcome to root for Chicago to lose, but Vuc is a big step up for them.  It's a risky move since they're currently a game and a half behind Boston in the 8 spot, or 3.5 back of New York/Atlanta.  I'm not sure if this is enough to ensure a playoff spot, but if they miss it, they'll be just outside, so I'd expect that first rounder maxes out at like the 12-13 range.

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Honestly, I'm a little surprised they couldn't get more for either Gordon or Vuc, although maybe I'm selling Carter and Harris short (don't know much about either one).

Yeah, I'm a little underwhelmed by the Gordon trade.  Harris is basically the same in terms of contracts, so it's not like they're saving money, and the pick is going to be in the twenties (albeit don't think I've seen it confirmed the pick is this year's, but I'm assuming).  Maybe they really like RJ Hampton?  I suppose you could look at it as they got two late first rounders with Hampton and the pick.

As for the Bulls probably making the playoffs, yeah.  Right now they'd have the 11th pick.  I can root for them to lose, but I agree it's more likely they make the playoffs now.  Although, the Celtics are the eighth seed.  If they can get it together, maybe...  As for Fournier, I'll gladly take two second rounders for him considering he was gonna be gone in a couple months anyway.

Anyway, that seems pretty nitpicky.  I'm glad they've finally committed to rebuilding.  Been waiting a long time.

[Relic]

Gordon to Denver is great for Denver, imo. Him and Jokic in a pick and roll is going to be very interesting 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The Magic made a ton of good trades looking at the deals. If I read the details correctly, they basically dumped three players, who were okay to good, but weren't getting you anywhere, for three firsts, two seconds, a young player or two they may actually want to keep and some salary dumps. Not bad when you consider they've been in the hell that is the 7-10 seed range for a while. Given they have the fourth worst record in a really good draft, I'd call that teardown a hell of a day.

Idk what the fuck the Bulls were doing though. Vucevic is a good player, but they're a bad team, he's not a game changing player, and now they lost two picks for someone who might not make them even good enough to avoid a play-in game given that's where they are now. @DMC should be really happy about this though.

I think the Heat also got a great deal for Oladipo. He cost them almost nothing, and even if it was on a bad team, 20/5/5 for a guy who still doesn't seem 100% is worth two contract dumps and a pick swap. Every headline I've seen also says they're the favorites to land Aldridge, though I have no idea what he has to offer these days. 

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, Relic said:

Gordon to Denver is great for Denver, imo. Him and Jokic in a pick and roll is going to be very interesting 

Yeah I think it's a very good fit for him.  His experience playing with Vuc should help playing with Jokic.

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

@DMC should be really happy about this though.

I am!  Go Not Bulls and Magic (and Nuggets, I guess)!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

I am!  Go Not Bulls and Magic (and Nuggets, I guess)!

Welcome to the hate watch club. I love the Wolves looking good for a quarter or two only to get destroyed. We cannot lose that pick to GS, and none of you want us to either.

Edwards' advanced numbers aren't great, but he is at least providing some hope. I just can't explain how inconsistent he is because his actual play looks really good (he'd also have way more assists if anyone on this team could shoot).

I'm scared to say it, but I'm guessing we trade Towns in the next year, and I have no faith we'll get great return for him even though his value should still be really high. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Welcome to the hate watch club.

Oh I've been rooting for the Magic to lose all season, although don't get to watch them much here in Pittsburgh.  If only they hadn't started 4-0...  Just now I have other teams to root against.

[Rhom]

In the Amazon LOTR series, word is that the role of Smaug will be played by Sam Presti.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

In the Amazon LOTR series, word is that the role of Smaug will be played by Sam Presti.

That, how should I say?

That cannot be right at all, 

It just can't be true! 

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Rhom said:

In the Amazon LOTR series, word is that the role of Smaug will be played by Sam Presti.

Seriously, jeebus.  Relatedly, just saw the Nuggets pick the Magic got isn't until 2025, and top five protected in until 2027.  It's pretty ridiculous the NBA has teams trading picks that may not convey for almost a decade later.  OTOH, I guess who knows who good the Nuggets will be in 2025?  Maybe that'll be a good pick.

[Argonath Diver]

I don't chat as much over here about the Bulls, as I spend most of my forum time over on realGM for that. But today is a really kickass day for Bulls fans. I really, really disliked Wendell Carter Jr and Otto Porter Jr, and am delighted they're gone. I am thrilled to get Vucevic and Theis, both huge upgrades over our previous centers. Just a goddamn terrific day.

I reserve the right to hate today if they fail badly and we regret losing two FRPs.

[Argonath Diver]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Magic made a ton of good trades looking at the deals. If I read the details correctly, they basically dumped three players, who were okay to good, but weren't getting you anywhere, for three firsts, two seconds, a young player or two they may actually want to keep and some salary dumps. Not bad when you consider they've been in the hell that is the 7-10 seed range for a while. Given they have the fourth worst record in a really good draft, I'd call that teardown a hell of a day.

Idk what the fuck the Bulls were doing though. Vucevic is a good player, but they're a bad team, he's not a game changing player, and now they lost two picks for someone who might not make them even good enough to avoid a play-in game given that's where they are now. @DMC should be really happy about this though.

I think the Heat also got a great deal for Oladipo. He cost them almost nothing, and even if it was on a bad team, 20/5/5 for a guy who still doesn't seem 100% is worth two contract dumps and a pick swap. Every headline I've seen also says they're the favorites to land Aldridge, though I have no idea what he has to offer these days. 

The Bulls were going absolutely nowhere with our three failed #7s. Our centers were destroyed by any 5 they played. Stars had 50/17 nights, scrubs had career nights against us routinely. The upgrade to Vuc and Theis at the 5 is enormous compared to the dreck that was Carter Jr, Gafford, and Kornet.

You're free to want them to have continued their disastrous course the past five years, but getting a young team into the playoffs is precisely what the team needs to be relevant again. This window won't get us a championship, but maybe we get a young star to sign once Vuc tails off, or Williams elevates his game. Today was a huge win for the Bulls.

[DMC]

41 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

I spend most of my forum time over on realGM for that

I was pretty active at RealGM when it first started 20 years ago.  Remember it had the first "trade checker," at least that I was aware of, and the guys running it were pretty cool.  Still visit it occasionally when something happens with the Magic, like today.

[Argonath Diver]

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

I was pretty active at RealGM when it first started 20 years ago.  Remember it had the first "trade checker," at least that I was aware of, and the guys running it were pretty cool.  Still visit it occasionally when something happens with the Magic, like today.

Yep, same as you it was that old trade checker that I used back then; I lurked the forums a good decade before making an account about when we got the 1.7% chance to draft Rose. It's a nice place to keep up with NBA news, and though the general board is mostly insufferable, there are some terrific posters for just about every team. The Bulls forum is one of the better ones there, though young, reactionary posters and the team being so bad have driven off some of the older posters, and the quality has taken a downturn the past few years. Most ORL guys coming in are saying we'll be happy to root for Vuc. I really, really disliked Wendell Carter Jr, so it's hard for me to be objective about his value to your team going forward. It's a fair gamble for Orlando that the Bulls moves fail and they still miss the playoffs. I am a pretty big Bulls fan, but I disliked so many players on the team that it's been hard to watch full games this season. The Bulls traded away five guys, none of whom I wanted on the team. I haven't actually been excited to watch Bulls basketball in ages, now I'm psyched for Saturday night.

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

The Bulls forum is one of the better ones there, though young, reactionary posters and the team being so bad have driven off some of the older posters, and the quality has taken a downturn the past few years. Most ORL guys coming in are saying we'll be happy to root for Vuc. I really, really disliked Wendell Carter Jr, so it's hard for me to be objective about his value to your team going forward.

I remember Howard Mass ran the Magic forum, and I think was the head guy for all the forums back in the day.  Anyway, yeah, Vuc is great, but it was time to trade him.  Didn't imagine they would pull the trigger on it, so quite pleasantly surprised.  In terms of this year's pick I'm not sure rooting against the Bulls is such a big deal (don't get me wrong I'll still do it cuz it's fun).  As long as the Bulls don't go on a crazy run, it will still probably be somewhere between 10-16.  At least at this point, that's not much of a difference.  The top 5 guys seem pretty clear - Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Green, and Kuminga - but after that opinions vary wildly.

As for Carter, any reason you dislike him so much?  His numbers seem alright and he's still pretty damn young.  Pretty funny that Orlando chose Mo Bamba right before him, and now they'll be competing for minutes.

[Proudfeet]

I wonder what teams see in George Hill. His length? He hasn't been great for awhile now but he keeps landing in contenders. Cleveland was rebuilding, but shouldn't the fact that Milwaukee let him go be a red flag for Philadelphia? Even if you can't trust Curry to defend or Simmons to shoot, I don't think he is that much an improvement on either's deficiencies while they are much better at what their strengths.

Don't think I've watched Boston this season, but why did they let Theis go? I thought he was pretty solid in the playoffs. Didn't stand out but did what he should. Even if Thompson was better(?), he'd still be a solid backup. 

[Argonath Diver]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I remember Howard Mass ran the Magic forum, and I think was the head guy for all the forums back in the day.  Anyway, yeah, Vuc is great, but it was time to trade him.  Didn't imagine they would pull the trigger on it, so quite pleasantly surprised.  In terms of this year's pick I'm not sure rooting against the Bulls is such a big deal (don't get me wrong I'll still do it cuz it's fun).  As long as the Bulls don't go on a crazy run, it will still probably be somewhere between 10-16.  At least at this point, that's not much of a difference.  The top 5 guys seem pretty clear - Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Green, and Kuminga - but after that opinions vary wildly.

As for Carter, any reason you dislike him so much?  His numbers seem alright and he's still pretty damn young.  Pretty funny that Orlando chose Mo Bamba right before him, and now they'll be competing for minutes.

Oh, root away, no worries at all there. 

As per Carter: He's very intelligent. His post-games are always well spoken. He owns up to his mistakes, and says exactly what he needs to do better. That's great. Then on the court, he makes the exact mistakes he bemoans. Over and over. He was atrocious against any talented big this year, when his defense was meant to be his calling card. His nice college 3pt shooting has disappeared, which is both on him and also Donovan for trying to run the offense through him at the top of the key. I'm mostly upset by his really bad on-court demeanor. He fouls a guy that's got him beat, then looks like a teenager who got yelled at by their mom for the next few minutes, while giving up six more quick points. 

I don't think his stats show how damaging he was this year; his poor defense combined with the failure of a pairing of LaVine/Coby White made our defense terribly porous. There were some guys who see his potential still; I had him as my avatar for a while, but he disappointed me too many damn times. Turned off multiple Bulls games this year watching him blow matchup after matchup. I think there's a strong NBA starter in there somewhere, as much as I bag on him.

Many of us wanted Bamba; I absolutely thought he'd be a star. It's nice to see him developing a bit after his early stumbles.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

As per Carter:

Thanks for this.  He strikes me as limited, but perhaps an efficient rotational player in time.  I think my expectations are much lower than yours, which is good..for me.

9 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

Many of us wanted Bamba; I absolutely thought he'd be a star. It's nice to see him developing a bit after his early stumbles.

Bamba has actually been fairly productive in the limited minutes given.  It's understandable why Clifford hasn't given many minutes - other than blocking he's not ready defensively, plus he fouls way too much anyway.  But the only way he's going to develop is by playing, and now hopefully he'll have that chance.

[Maithanet]

Heat fans have to the thrilled about picking up Oladipo for virtually nothing.  Kelly Olynk and Avery Bradley were not going to get meaningful minutes in the playoffs, while Oladipo could potentially be the third best guy on the team.  At the very least, they're a better team.  They've been on a tear recently as they've gotten healthy.  If they can make the pieces fit, their roster matches up pretty well with any of the other East contenders.  Oladipo is definitely going to be a valuable defensive option against Irving and Harden.