Realistic Riverlands campaign

[Mrstrategy]

What would a realistic  Riverlands campaign assuming that the Riverlands Armies are still crushed by Lannister forces?I'm talking specially about castles and sieges since most castle in the campaign seem to fall easily to both sides except for Riverrun as well as ability of the Riverlands to raise more troops since they seem to raise thousand after Robb ended siege of Riverrun but by red wedding there barely any Riverlands troops except for house Frey troops and small Garrison's/levies of Riverlands houses.

[Groo]

What's the goal -- destroy the Freys, reunite with the North, return the Tullys to Riverrun, something else? The campaign depends on your goal. For example, a serious guerilla war against just the Freys might be enough to show the Iron Throne that the Freys can't keep control of the Riverlands, potentially setting up a return for Edmure if he's willing to bend the knee to the Iron Throne and bring order back to the Riverlands. That wouldn't reunite the Riverlands with the North, of course, or even necessarily result in the destruction of the Freys but it has a chance of restoring the Tullys. I'm not advocating this particular scenario just using it as an example of needing to have a defined goal before mapping out a strategy.

[dsjj251]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:49 PM, Mrstrategy said:

What would a realistic  Riverlands campaign assuming that the Riverlands Armies are still crushed by Lannister forces?I'm talking specially about castles and sieges since most castle in the campaign seem to fall easily to both sides except for Riverrun as well as ability of the Riverlands to raise more troops since they seem to raise thousand after Robb ended siege of Riverrun but by red wedding there barely any Riverlands troops except for house Frey troops and small Garrison's/levies of Riverlands houses.

Realistically, not only should the Riverlands have a larger army than the Westerlands, they should be in a strategically better place than vice versa. 

Its not like the Lannister Army marched into the Riverlands through the open southern field. No, They came through the mountains at the Golden Tooth.  Gregor only has 7 men, so him attacking small towns should be so serious that he detours Pinkmaiden or Wayfarers Rest from getting to the Golden Tooth to defend it.  All those Westermen funneled into that area, it should have been a slaughter. 

 

 

[Mad King Bolton]

The Riverlands hadn't marshalled their troops when the Westerland Army came so far as I remember.  Gregor was sent to create chaos to draw Ned out from King's landing to capture or kill in response to Tyrion I believe, so the Riverlands weren't prepared for what happened. 

I wouldn't say the Riverlands are strategically placed in my opinion.  It's in the middle and open to attack from all sides.  It's like trying to hold Ukraine in Risk...weak (hope someone gets that old ass reference).  As for size of the land and army's they can muster, they may or may not have more troops available than the Westerlands, but Tywin has resources they don't like the Brave Companions and he could have summoned more to fight for him if needed.  Anyway, I think the Riverlands in particular are the toughest place to hold as they have to cover too many fronts which is probably why they holed up in Riverrun in the end.

[Groo]

7 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

Realistically, not only should the Riverlands have a larger army than the Westerlands, they should be in a strategically better place than vice versa. 

Its not like the Lannister Army marched into the Riverlands through the open southern field. No, They came through the mountains at the Golden Tooth.  Gregor only has 7 men, so him attacking small towns should be so serious that he detours Pinkmaiden or Wayfarers Rest from getting to the Golden Tooth to defend it.  All those Westermen funneled into that area, it should have been a slaughter. 

 

 

Where are you getting this 7 men number from? Beric Dondarrion and his men were ambushed at the Mummer's Ford by way more than 7 men. When Tywin leaves Harrenhal Gregor has three hundred cavalry under his command.

[Angel Eyes]

9 minutes ago, Groo said:

Where are you getting this 7 men number from? Beric Dondarrion and his men were ambushed at the Mummer's Ford by way more than 7 men. When Tywin leaves Harrenhal Gregor has three hundred cavalry under his command.

I assume the Mountain’s Men that we meet: 

• Polliver (big baldy, took Needle)
• Tickler (torture specialist)
• Raff (kills Lommy)
• Shitmouth (foul-mouthed but somewhat less mean)
• Chiswyck (old soldier, first killed by Jaqen)
• Dunsen (took Gendry’s helmet)
• Squire of House Sarsfield

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I assume the Mountain’s Men that we meet: 

• Polliver (big baldy, took Needle)
• Tickler (torture specialist)
• Raff (kills Lommy)
• Shitmouth (foul-mouthed but:
• somewhat less mean)
• Chiswyck (old soldier, first killed by Jaqen)
• Dunsen (took Gendry’s helmet)
• Squire of House Sarsfield

The peasants quote anything from 20 to hundreds when Ned interviews them. At least 100 makes sense given what Tywin orders him to do in the RL after the Green Fork

"Let them," Lord Tywin said. "Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork."

I'm assuming the raiders each have more than one horse which would be historically inaccurate but hey GRRM!

[Mad King Bolton]

Gregor often leads Tywin's van. He'd likely have a company of men at the least who ride with him regularly. We meet the notables by name, but there would be many more.

[dsjj251]

On 3/11/2021 at 7:09 AM, Mad King Bolton said:

The Riverlands hadn't marshalled their troops when the Westerland Army came so far as I remember.  

 

 

Thats the point, that isnt realistic. It should be much easier for Edmure to gather troops than Tywin.  And much easier for them to march  half the distance to the Golden Tooth, than it is for Westerman to march  3 times the distance to the same place. 

On 3/11/2021 at 7:09 AM, Mad King Bolton said:

 

, so the Riverlands weren't prepared for what happened. 

 

Based on the Wiki(and reading/listening to Eddard 43), It sounds like they were prepared. The argument is some raiders  somehow took down entire towns. 

On 3/11/2021 at 7:09 AM, Mad King Bolton said:

I wouldn't say the Riverlands are strategically placed in my opinion.  It's in the middle and open to attack from all sides.  It's like trying to hold Ukraine in Risk...weak (hope someone gets that old ass reference).  As for size of the land and army's they can muster, they may or may not have more troops available than the Westerlands, but Tywin has resources they don't like the Brave Companions and he could have summoned more to fight for him if needed.  Anyway, I think the Riverlands in particular are the toughest place to hold as they have to cover too many fronts which is probably why they holed up in Riverrun in the end.

The Westerlands only have one place of entry into the Riverlands, and that is the Golden Tooth.  Strategically, that is a shooting gallery, and creates a funnel, the army trying to enter into the others realm, should be utterly destroyed. 

 

If The Riverlands were in fact fighting say The Westerlands, North, Vale and Reach at the same time, you would be right, but not just one. 

[dsjj251]

On 3/11/2021 at 1:53 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

The peasants quote anything from 20 to hundreds when Ned interviews them. At least 100 makes sense given what Tywin orders him to do in the RL after the Green Fork

"Let them," Lord Tywin said. "Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork."

I'm assuming the raiders each have more than one horse which would be historically inaccurate but hey GRRM!

 

The peasants dont give a number, and an ale house isnt going to have 100 people in it.

[Universal Sword Donor]

10 hours ago, dsjj251 said:

The peasants dont give a number, and an ale house isnt going to have 100 people in it.

Nah they do:

"How many men were there in this raiding party?" Ned asked.

"A hundred, at the least," Joss answered, in the same instant as the bandaged smith said, "Fifty," and the grandmother behind him, "Hunnerds and hunnerds, m'lord, an army they was."

 

Taking the average is what I did. I'm assuming Joss, the brewer / innkeeper can count higher than 7 or so. He does have to run a business and make change. Gregor is a landed knight so him being able to raise dozens of men would fall pretty squarely in the capacity of a landed knight with the direct favor of his LP.