Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: Yeah let's start there. Biden won the election and his Vice President was a MFA supporter during the primary, and co-sponsor of Bernie's single payer legislation. That's an issue that has clearly gained significant traction since the 2016 Sanders campaign, bringing it closer to a possibility than it has been since the 60s. It has also played a role in energizing commitment to more modest reforms like a the public option from politicians like Biden who do not support MFA but still need to worry about the left. "Defunding the police" has not happened in the broadest sense but the demand has forced reforms in several major cities. A case of a radical demand producing an incremental change, it seems to me. Biden won the election in this political climate. The Democrats the House and Senate. At most you could to strain to argue that they could have performed better if these demands were being made. But it strikes me as amazingly convenient for centrists to get an incrementalist standard bearer at the top of the Democratic ticket and then turn around and say, "and we would have done even better if it weren't for you people out their daring to mention your beliefs!" It never seems to cross your mind that the problem could be the centrism, and is very much a "heads I win, tails you lose" form of argument. Biden won and Harris had to adjust her healthcare policies. Has her advocacy changed Biden's positions much at all? Maybe there are some examples in the margins. That's really not much of a point, and Biden already wanted to moved the issue to the left and expand the ACA. Fighting for M4A probably didn't have much impact there. But you are right that Bernie did move the goal posts, a point I've made for years and why I said he ultimately won, but he also hasn't turned that into nearly as much as he's promised. And that's been my point. Politicians who over promise and under deliver need to be called out. It's very unlikely he would have accomplished his stated goals if he won, and where would that have left us? Shocking that liberal cities are reforming their policies. How are those same talking points helping in swing districts? It's largely a dead fish talking point that doesn't help people who want reform. It was always a bad idea. Biden won by not being Trump, having moderate appeal and frankly, by acting like a normal human being. But Democrats underperformed in November in Congress. People on the far left taking positions they never really had to defend did no favors to Dems in knife fights. And for like the thousandth time, I'm no centrist, but I am a pragmatist and I know how hard it can be to just rename a street. 14 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Listen, there are lots of problems with the current system we have, least of all the fact that most representatives seem to come mostly from the legal/business class rather than having more scientists. doctors, bartenders or even farmers in there. I also think most of our representatives are luddites when it comes to technology etc. for sure. It makes sense that the legal community is overly represented in Congress. The profession on paper is going to help you out most in the job, but at the same time, these offices and institutions have several lawyers at their disposal, so make of that what you will. It would be better if more professions were represented, but lawyers will likely make of the largest bloc. Quote However, most of them got there because they were elected by the public at large who seem comfortable with the level of incompetence on display with their representatives. I also dont like morons going on the Senate floor and throwing snowballs, but I still wouldnt want an IQ test to be a filter for our representatives. Not sure what this applies to, as I don't think anyone has argued for an IQ test for elected officials, but it is a reminder of the old cliché that people deserve their governments if they can vote for them. If we're electing morons, the nation needs to take a long look in the mirror (and really need to wonder how Louie Gohmert was elected the class president of anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Quote On February 26, 2015, Inhofe brought a snowball to the Senate floor and tossed it before delivering remarks in which he said that environmentalists keep talking about global warming even though it keeps getting cold. I mean, this guy is debating policy on climate change while being an idiot of the highest order, but having an IQ test is not the answer to keep him out. The principle is the same for age based filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/03/17/everyone-nobody-out-jayapal-dingell-introduce-medicare-all-act-112-co-sponsors "Jayapal (D-Wash.) and Dingell (D-Mich.) unveiled the landmark legislation at a virtual town hall Wednesday afternoon, where they highlighted the devastating effects of a virus that has killed more than 537,000 people in the United States while leaving millions more uninsured due to pandemic-related job loss and underemployment. The bill —backed by a record 112 House co-sponsors—guarantees healthcare to every U.S. resident as a human right." So less than 50% support of what you need to pass the legislation in one chamber, which even if you had the votes in the House would absolutely die in the Senate. Cool. That's not landmark legislation and you know it. 15 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: Yes, they are. See OA's post. 1. Did including the minimum wage raise in the covid bill kill the chances of raising the minimum wage? 2. Your entire argument is based on after the fact rationalizations that you have zero evidence of. Are you seriously arguing that if M4A wasn't discussed during the Dem primaries Biden would be trying to ram it through congress? 3. How are people supposed to "change the political landscape" if voters and reps can't even talk about these topics? 1. Did it change anything either? The issue has been on a hamster wheel for years, and I hate to say it, it's probably more likely to pass if they seek something less ambitious. Should the minimum wage be something like $15 an hour? Yes, and it should probably be more in a lot of places. Has an effort for a national $15 minimum wage actually worked? No, and it doesn't feel like we're much closer to it. 2. They are born out of reality. Any reasonable student of politics could tell you, for example, on the front end that M4A was DoA. Hard to say that's zero evidence when it's clearly dead also on the back end. Also, Biden is not ramming it through, not sure where you're seeing that. 3. You can talk about them if you want, but lately this has spilling over into the absurd "if you don't support this, your immoral" area. Does that get anyone anywhere? Demanding support for a pie in the sky approach isn't actually going to help more people than the boring technocratic work of slowly advancing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Biden won and Harris had to adjust her healthcare policies. Has her advocacy changed Biden's positions much at all? Maybe there are some examples in the margins. That's really not much of a point, and Biden already wanted to moved the issue to the left and expand the ACA. Fighting for M4A probably didn't have much impact there. But you are right that Bernie did move the goal posts, a point I've made for years and why I said he ultimately won, but he also hasn't turned that into nearly as much as he's promised. And that's been my point. Politicians who over promise and under deliver need to be called out. It's very unlikely he would have accomplished his stated goals if he won, and where would that have left us? Shocking that liberal cities are reforming their policies. How are those same talking points helping in swing districts? It's largely a dead fish talking point that doesn't help people who want reform. It was always a bad idea. Biden won by not being Trump, having moderate appeal and frankly, by acting like a normal human being. But Democrats underperformed in November in Congress. People on the far left taking positions they never really had to defend did no favors to Dems in knife fights. And for like the thousandth time, I'm no centrist, but I am a pragmatist and I know how hard it can be to just rename a street. It makes sense that the legal community is overly represented in Congress. The profession on paper is going to help you out most in the job, but at the same time, these offices and institutions have several lawyers at their disposal, so make of that what you will. It would be better if more professions were represented, but lawyers will likely make of the largest bloc. Not sure what this applies to, as I don't think anyone has argued for an IQ test for elected officials, but it is a reminder of the old cliché that people deserve their governments if they can vote for them. If we're electing morons, the nation needs to take a long look in the mirror (and really need to wonder how Louie Gohmert was elected the class president of anything). Some moderate MOCs complained about this but still won. It's more likely that Dems in moderate districts struggled due to ticket splitting - you can't claim that Biden made appeals to sensible Republicans and conservative independents and then blame [M4a and defunding the police, which he adamantly does not support] for why he did better than Dem reps in conservative states. Dems didn't underperform in Congressional elections if Biden needed crossover, sensible appeal and votes from Repubs to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: This line of thinking devolves into total nihilism pretty quickly. Look, nihilism is the centrist's raison d'etre, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: I mean, this guy is debating policy on climate change while being an idiot of the highest order, but having an IQ test is not the answer to keep him out. The principle is the same for age based filtering. I think your 18-death proposal is a perfectly reasonable position I can't really argue with. However, when it comes to qualifications for elected officials, I am very comfortable being an elitist. And if we're going to have a (non-18) minimum, I definitely think there should be a maximum too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 I'm in favor of competency tests for federal elected positions. Let the mouthbreathers run for state positions, Alabama's idiocy should not threaten the Greater Elite Coast Hegemony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, Comrade Jace, Leftist said: I'm in favor of competency tests for federal elected positions. I would, seriously, be open to competency tests for elected officials. I'm just not sure how to design a fair and appropriate test. Definitely would not use IQ tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 *snicker* Hmmm... Ah, and my boy Lindse: https://www.comicsands.com/lindsey-graham-fall-over-filibuster-2651165737.html Lindsey Graham Says He Would 'Talk Until I Fell Over' To Prevent LGBTQ And Voting Rights Bills From Passing Oh, and another case of cancel culture: https://www.rawstory.com/capitol-riots-2651166952/ Capitol rioter bans Biden voters from his Ohio coffee shop In an interview with local news station WKBN, C4 Coffee owner Adam Newbold said he didn't want Biden supporters, transgender people, or people who support taking a knee during the national anthem to come into his store. "If you voted for Joe Biden, don't buy our coffee, it's not for you," he said. "If you feel that America is on the right track and there's nothing wrong with gender neutral, don't know which bathroom to use, use whichever bathroom you feel like during the day… don't buy our coffee cause it's not for you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 What excerpts I've read of the Sherwin interview had me wondering whether it was wise for him to be putting that into the public realm? Regards to Lindsey.......... Really......just really ......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Wise? I wonder if he tries to screw these cases up deliberately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, DMC said: I would, seriously, be open to competency tests for elected officials. I'm just not sure how to design a fair and appropriate test. Definitely would not use IQ tests. It isn't supposed to be fair. It's supposed to keep the riff raff out. Make it as critically difficult to pass as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 To be clear, Michael Sherwin did resign his post as DC US Attorney on March 3 (and was presumably asked to resign). Further, it obviously appears he's no longer involved in the investigation, when there was talk Biden might make him a special prosecutor or something to stay on the case. Maybe he's pissed that didn't happen. According to CBS, he plans on returning to the US Attorney's office in Miami. I highly doubt anyone at the DOJ "authorized" his interview, although if he is still working at a US Attorney's office, he should indeed be subject to disciplinary action for misconduct, including firing. Other than firing him though, there's not much the DOJ can do to stop him from speaking to 60 minutes. Or at least, the government definitely shouldn't be trying to stop him. 2 minutes ago, Comrade Jace, Leftist said: It isn't supposed to be fair. I didn't mean fair in terms of difficulty, I meant fair in terms of determining what universally understood knowledge should be for any MC. It would not be easy to write such a test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, DMC said: I didn't mean fair in terms of difficulty, I meant fair in terms of determining what universally understood knowledge should be for any MC. It would not be easy to write such a test. Question 1 Fill in the periodic table: Question 2 If a Democratic senator is elected from Wyoming and a Republican senator is elected from California, what percentage of each senator's respective states {EDIT! Just learned to read.} are IS {END EDIT} being represented by a member of the minority party? Question 3 Who is Robespierre and what can he teach us about the volatility of revolution? Question 4 Provide five examples on how to defeat the military technology known as "Wall": Question 5 Why does god allow suffering (note the small "g")? ------------------ This is a closed-book exam. You have fifteen minutes to complete this assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, DMC said: I didn't mean fair in terms of difficulty, I meant fair in terms of determining what universally understood knowledge should be for any MC. It would not be easy to write such a test. US citizenship test would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Comrade Jace, Leftist said: This is a closed-book exam. You have fifteen minutes to complete this assessment. I don't like your test. I don't even understand Question 2. 1 minute ago, Gorn said: US citizenship test would be a good start. I think it should be significantly more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, DMC said: I don't like your test. I don't even understand Question 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Seriously, Question 2 doesn't make any sense. I also don't see any reason to test MCs on the periodic table and definitely don't give a shit what they think about god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, DMC said: Seriously, Question 2 doesn't make any sense. I also don't see any reason to test MCs on the periodic table and definitely don't give a shit what they think about god. I assume the god question is a trick question. Acceptable answers include "why are you asking this question", "does it really matter", "my views on god are irrelevant, including to your suffering" and "GFY". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said: I assume the god question is a trick question. Acceptable answers include "why are you asking this question", "does it really matter", "my views on god are irrelevant, including to your suffering" and "GFY". Go fuck yourself would definitely be my answer. The problem with the question is I don't think the answer matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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