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UK Politics - I Protest

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

In what way do you not think there is such a thing? In that you don’t believe there is no such thing as a shared national identity or that it just doesn’t apply to Britain?

What are the characteristics of this shared national identity?

I don’t really see any

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4 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

What are the characteristics of this shared national identity?

I don’t really see any

So you don’t believe that there is such a thing as a shared national identity? If you asked someone if they felt Scottish and they said yes, would you tell them then that they were wrong?

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16 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

What are the characteristics of this shared national identity?

I don’t really see any

What are the characteristics of any shared national identity? 

It’s identifying as that identity. That’s it really. They’re all just social constructs.

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13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

So you don’t believe that there is such a thing as a shared national identity? If you asked someone if they felt Scottish and they said yes, would you tell them then that they were wrong?

There’s a difference to being Scottish and claiming a shares national identity. Someone living in a highrise in a deprived part of Glasgow has next to fuck all in common with a crofter in Ardnamurchan. Barely even the same language!

Hell, I’ve little in common with either, and I grew up not overly far from Glasgow, and I’ve very distant family in Ardnamurchan.

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38 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Sex Pest Salmond is launching his own political party, the Alba Party. Good for those who feel the SNP doesn’t represent anti-woke misogynists like themselves.

If the candidates it attracts are cut from the same cloth as the founder, I suspect #metoo will see it buried in scandal.

Why can’t the George Galloways, Nigel Farages and Alex Salmonds just fuck off? It’s almost as if it’s all about their egos.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-56539696?__twitter_impression=true

Could he take enough votes from the SNP to prevent a majority for indyref2?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

What are the characteristics of any shared national identity? 

It’s identifying as that identity. That’s it really. They’re all just social constructs.

Yeah this is basically it. I don’t think it’s especially complicated.

13 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

There’s a difference to being Scottish and claiming a shares national identity. Someone living in a highrise in a deprived part of Glasgow has next to fuck all in common with a crofter in Ardnamurchan. Barely even the same language!

Hell, I’ve little in common with either, and I grew up not overly far from Glasgow, and I’ve very distant family in Ardnamurchan.

But if you asked them if they were Scottish they’d probably say yes right? Do they identify as Scottish or only as a crofter from Ardnamurchan?

Thats why I don’t understand your question. The whole point of a national identity is that it sits on top of a lot of other identities , and allows very different people from different backgrounds to have a sense of togetherness.

Someone upthread suggested that their identity was ‘European’, and I’m sure many here would see that as a positive thing, but there are large differences between national identities within Europe, so what’s the difference?

Edited by Heartofice

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2 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Could he take enough votes from the SNP to prevent a majority for indyref2?

Under the way Holyrood voting works (not an expert) I don’t think it’s as simple as taking votes away. Someone more versed might be able to shed more light

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Just now, Heartofice said:

Yeah this is basically it. I don’t think it’s especially complicated.

But if you asked them if they were Scottish they’d probably say yes right? Do they identify as Scottish or only as a crofter from Ardnamurchan?

Thats why I don’t understand your question. The whole point of a national identity is that it sits on top of a lot of other identities , and allows very different people from different backgrounds to have a sense of togetherness.

Someone upthread suggested that their identity was ‘European’, and I’m sure many here would see that as a positive thing, even though there are large differences between national identities within Europe

So it’s not really a real thing. In any case, an increasing characteristic of British people is a desire to no longer be British

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12 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

So it’s not really a real thing. In any case, an increasing characteristic of British people is a desire to no longer be British

Are any identities real?

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41 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

So it’s not really a real thing.

It’s a thing if people believe it’s a thing. As above, social constructs. There’s a shit ton of them. 

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1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Under the way Holyrood voting works (not an expert) I don’t think it’s as simple as taking votes away. Someone more versed might be able to shed more light

It's complicated. But basically, in regions where the SNP win a lot of constituency seats, they would probably not get any additional list seats anyway, so this new party (if they get enough votes, probably around 6-7%) could result in a pro-independence MSP being elected where an additional SNP MSP would not have been. This would have no effect on the SNP as such but would increase rather than decrease the number of pro-independence MSPs in Parliament. In regions where the SNP get lots of list members but few constituency MSPs (presently that's only South Scotland) they could lose votes and potentially seats as a result of the Alex Salmond Ego Party standing.

A lot depends on those constituency results, though. The real effect can't be predicted easily as many of them are quite marginal, and the SNP losing even two or three per region will bear on whether the I'm Still Relevant party has an effect.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

but definitely not Germanness.

:D

But-but-but British -- it's gotta be Germanness, you know, the Angles and the Saxons?  Not to mention more recently, the Hanovers and Saxe-Coburgs.  :cheers:

 

Edited by Zorral

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Posted (edited)

Britishness means not getting down on our hands and knees and lapping at our tea like cats, thanks to the Beaker People. 

Edited by Spockydog

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3 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Sex Pest Salmond is launching his own political party, the Alba Party. Good for those who feel the SNP doesn’t represent anti-woke misogynists like themselves.

If the candidates it attracts are cut from the same cloth as the founder, I suspect #metoo will see it buried in scandal.

Why can’t the George Galloways, Nigel Farages and Alex Salmonds just fuck off? It’s almost as if it’s all about their egos.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-56539696?__twitter_impression=true

Kinda funny that a new independence party gets the pronunciation of 'Alba' wrong. Guess Salmond doesn't like Runrig much.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Nationalism can possibly be positive if built around a common project that visibly improves the welbeing of its citizens and not merely around the exclusion of an "other" whose negative traits are often exaggerated. Too often though, nationalism proposes to blame hardships on an oppressor or on marginalised groups within, rather than designing ways to overcome these hardships. It's a difficult process to get right, and given what happens when it's not, it's no wonder many are suspicious of it.

True.
also to the second bolded also yes.

Those marginalized also tend to be discounted as not real citizens of a nation despite how long they or they’re families had existed in said nation.
Also again there’s a tendency to blame any complaints by marginalized groups due to the manipulations of a foreign enemy.

Rather than introspection on whether or not a nation’s treatment of x group could foster disgruntlement such things are usually discounted as unimportant in the grand scheme of the nation hegemonic or labeled a plan from the enemy in a plan weaken national unity by many nationalists.

Some women and men want to step outside traditional gender roles?

It’s foreign plot to drive down birth rates.

An ethnic group is complaining about racism or bigotry?

Foreign plot to stir up divisions. 

A nation’s bad actions are being taught to children?

Foreign plot to get people feeling guilty and not willing to fight off an invasion.

 

5 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

What is Britishness?

whatever you want it to be whether that be drinking tea or eating crumpets.

You’re meant to fill in the gaps for what counts as “Britishness” 

It’s so vague so anyone could insert whatever they want to qualify into what it means.

One could say “promoting Britishness” entails promoting multiculturalism—it’s an important thing for Britains to see each other’s as equals due to them being British without the specific cultural hang ups.

 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Over the long term I see this as a positive development, the centralisation of services around major cities makes no sense in the 21st century.. but to change all that overnight is going to be a huge shock.

I have noticed in the neighbourhood where I live there have been new businesses opening up over the last year where previously there weren't any cafes or greengrocer or food trucks to target the people now spending most of their time here rather than working in offices elsewhere. I think that's positive, although in overall economic terms probably unlikely to offset the hit city centre businesses must be taking.

9 hours ago, Leap said:

Yeah, I am pretty desperate to go back into the office, and I probably wouldn't want to stay if it was permanently work from home. From the virtual team meets we've had lately, most of my peers seem to agree that we need some sort of balance - 3 in, 2 wfh, or whatever. 

Besides the fact that working remotely is just not as productive in a lot of ways, it's incredibly lonely if you live alone (or worse, with flatmates you don't get on with). It's all well and good for the people who have their own house, family, and offline social sphere - for a lot of young people in big cities that isn't the case, or at least work is a large part of our social life. When I went to the Doctors the other day, that was the first time I spoke to a person face-to-face for longer than 30s in a month. At the doctors! So yeah, I'm keen to get back into the office. And while long term I do think services will be less centralised in the big cities, I don't think it's just a switch that's already been switched. It'll be a long trend.

I'm in the same position as you, Perhaps I might feel happier about working from home if I'd previously had a long commute to get to work but at the moment I definitely look forward to a time when I might see other people in person on a regular basis.

8 hours ago, kiko said:

While I agree with you, I would like to point out that it is in general unhealthy that we get most of our social interaction from work. (While at the same time discouraging too close contacts for all kinds of reasons). This shows that work has too much of a stranglehold over our life's and stunts us as social beings.

It shouldn't be that way and maybe this is an opportunity to change that. Let's not wish to go back to work and donate our time to some faceless corporation just to be near to other people. That feels a bit like Stockholm syndrome.

That's a fair point, although I think working from home isn't making that particular problem any better. I think beforehand I might have imagined having more free time if I was working from home but I've not really found that to be the case.

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3 hours ago, Ser Drewy said:

Kinda funny that a new independence party gets the pronunciation of 'Alba' wrong. Guess Salmond doesn't like Runrig much.

Maybe he's upset if Pete Wishart is sticking with the other SNP MPs?

I'm also now wondering if Salmond chose Alba as the party name because the first syllable is shared with Alex.

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Salmond faces the same problem with the I'll Show You All(ba) party as Galloway did with Respect and to some extent Farage did with UKIP, which is that he has a strong public profile himself and a chunk of the electorate who're probably at least willing to listen to his pitch, but with no existing party structure, he has to find people willing to stand for election under his banner who aren't completely awful PR disasters in waiting. Good luck with that. He has three so far, and two of them are anti-trans campaigners whose career was going nowhere in the SNP.

It's also interesting that he's going with the pitch of 'environmentally responsible and socially just pro-independence party', as there are two of those on the ballot already. It's hard to see how that appeals to anyone disaffected with the current SNP leadership.

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2 hours ago, mormont said:

Salmond faces the same problem with the I'll Show You All(ba) party as Galloway did with Respect and to some extent Farage did with UKIP, which is that he has a strong public profile himself and a chunk of the electorate who're probably at least willing to listen to his pitch, but with no existing party structure, he has to find people willing to stand for election under his banner who aren't completely awful PR disasters in waiting. Good luck with that. He has three so far, and two of them are anti-trans campaigners whose career was going nowhere in the SNP.

It's also interesting that he's going with the pitch of 'environmentally responsible and socially just pro-independence party', as there are two of those on the ballot already. It's hard to see how that appeals to anyone disaffected with the current SNP leadership.

Yeah. If you’re in favour of independence but aren’t happy with SNP (or their candidate in your area), there’s the Green Party.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Under the way Holyrood voting works (not an expert) I don’t think it’s as simple as taking votes away. Someone more versed might be able to shed more light

If the new party can hit 5%+ in most regions, it will probably add to the number of pro-independence MSP's.  Under 5%, then there's a risk it will shred the pro-independence vote.  I'd have thought it's support base might be among those voters who favour Scottish indpendence, but are right of centre.

Edited by SeanF

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